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Kali Tanisha Harris

Dark Blueish-Gray diamond color?

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Hi,

I always see this blue color coming through (besides the sky reflection) in this 1.2ct brilliant round dark gray diamond. It has 0 black inclusions even at 10x, but there is this translucent blue cloud enveloping most of it. It has 0 to little fluorescence. Is is this Fancy Dark Gray worth the time to send it to GIA?

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Edited by Kali Tanisha Harris

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It depends on what you want to do with it.

If you are a collector and already have the diamond, it's a fairly expensive way of acquiring more information about the stone - then again, I once spent 5x as much as a GIA "Colour Origin" report to get one ruby graded by Gubelin with no intention to resell, so who am I to speak?

If for resale, then the second level question is "to whom?" In some markets/to some segments a GIA report attesting natural origin of colour (never mind what colour) is a requirement if you make any claims in this respect, be it grey, blue or anything else. (FWIW, from the photos my eyes see far more green than blue).

In terms of time, same applies: do you have a likely set of customers knocking at your door for a 1.2 RBC fancy dark? Then spending an extra $100-150 for the rush service may be worth it. Otherwise, waiting time is currently ~3 weeks (assuming you can get fast shipping to/from GIA).

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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This is good news! It does happen to be of natural origin, but then again not confirmed by GIA yet. It is also untreated and I think I know the country it was mined in. GIA would be able to confirm this I hope. 

Edited by Kali Tanisha Harris

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In the last one it does look blue, but there's also plenty of green around the edge. In any case, a photo is an awful way of grading colour.

BTW - the "color origin" report only specifies the origin of the colour, i.e. natural, enhanced or undetermined (as in: we think it's enhanced, but we can't prove it). It's a cheaper report than the complete grading, and it has no clarity or finish grading. As far as I know, GIA does not provide any report with "origin" as in country or location of origin. Confusing, I know.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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35 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

In the last one it does look blue, but there's also plenty of green around the edge. In any case, a photo is an awful way of grading colour.

BTW - the "color origin" report only specifies the origin of the colour, i.e. natural, enhanced or undetermined (as in: we think it's enhanced, but we can't prove it). It's a cheaper report than the complete grading, and it has no clarity or finish grading. As far as I know, GIA does not provide any report with "origin" as in country or location of origin. Confusing, I know.

I'm glad that you can see the blue in the last pic. I have taken video of it while moving it so that you can see the different intensities of blue as the light passes through at different points. I am hoping so sell it. I was thinking about putting it in a setting.

The color of a diamond can't be %100 confirmed with a photo. Something can, however, be done for reflections in photos to be minimized. Would a mini photo room be useful? Or even something beside the diamond for comparison in the shot?

 

 

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A camera box (I guess that's what you mean by "mini photo room") will minimise reflection from the outside, but:

1. It often results in images that are very sterile in my opinion. Much nicer to see the colour against a sheet of white paper but the small parts of other diamonds in the image add to the beauty and contrast, rather than taking away (for me at least).

2. I don't see any point in trying to demonstrate the colour against an "objective" reference (say a Pantone tile) if you are going to get a GIA report. I would rather take multiple shots in different lighting (as you have already done) trying to show how the colour changes and what the buyer might see in their house.

On the setting, again it depends on your market and your potential customers (and in a strange chicken-and-egg kind of way on the GIA report: if it came up as fancy dark greenish-blue, it would suddenly become a lot more collectable than a fancy dark bluish-greenish-grey). I would suggest you take a look at what GIA says, and decide afterwards.

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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5 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

A camera box (I guess that's what you mean by "mini photo room") will minimise reflection from the outside, but:

1. It often results in images that are very sterile in my opinion. Much nicer to see the colour against a sheet of white paper but the small parts of other diamonds in the image add to the beauty and contrast, rather than taking away (for me at least).

2. I don't see any point in trying to demonstrate the colour against an "objective" reference (say a Pantone tile) if you are going to get a GIA report. I would rather take multiple shots in different lighting (as you have already done) trying to show how the colour changes and what the buyer might see in their house.

On the setting, again it depends on your market and your potential customers (and in a strange chicken-and-egg kind of way on the GIA report: if it came up as fancy dark greenish-blue, it would suddenly become a lot more collectable than a fancy dark bluish-greenish-grey). I would suggest you take a look at what GIA says, and decide afterwards.

this is very helpful, Thank you for the feedback and taking the time to look at the pics I have posted.  I will send to GIA asap and then decide on the setting. 

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Good luck! If I (and the rest of DiamondReview) can help with any more questions, ask away!

Hope you'll be back to tell us what GIA says; I'm very curious.

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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14 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

Good luck! If I (and the rest of DiamondReview) can help with any more questions, ask away!

Hope you'll be back to tell us what GIA says; I'm very curious.

I was thinking about sending the pear that I have which is Pinkish brown or even Orangy pink in some lighting. It has a high level of fluorescence to it however. When it comes to browns or pinks, does fluorescence diminish the value %15?

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Speaking of blue fluorescence, for browns, I'd say it has absolutely no effect on price, as long as the stone remains transparent (not "overblue"). For pinks, hard to say - it definitely has some impact, but it depends on how much the colour changes (again, excepting overblues). Where blue fluoro has a big impact is on yellows since it bleaches the stone in natural light.

In general, I would say that any impact on price is individual to how the stone reacts and what it looks like. For example, strong yellow fluorescence on a yellow or orange stone may even be desirable; on a pink... eurrgh.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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19 hours ago, davidelevi said:

Speaking of blue fluorescence, for browns, I'd say it has absolutely no effect on price, as long as the stone remains transparent (not "overblue"). For pinks, hard to say - it definitely has some impact, but it depends on how much the colour changes (again, excepting overblues). Where blue fluoro has a big impact is on yellows since it bleaches the stone in natural light.

In general, I would say that any impact on price is individual to how the stone reacts and what it looks like. For example, strong yellow fluorescence on a yellow or orange stone may even be desirable; on a pink... eurrgh.

The Orange pinkish diamond has a strong cornflower blue. It tends to make the stone look less yellow in sunlight and more pink. Would that have a positive or a negative impact? Thank you for helping me with all  of my questions!

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If it looks more pink rather than brown (there is also a "dark" component in orange), then generally I would assume small effect of fluorescence on price (and possibly a slightly positive one) - however it also depends on the extent of the variation: if it's very strong (variation in colour), then not everybody likes diamonds with multiple personalities... Sorry, I know I'm sitting on the fence, but it's really not an exact science.

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Most people will find a fancy dark grey to be difficult to sell.  It’s a fashion thing, and the issue is what market you’re selling to, not so much the ‘value’ of the stone. This isn’t like cashing a check, and it has a lot to do with your own distribution channels.  I suspect most stores would do better selling a thing like this mounted for example, and I doubt a GIA inspection would help much.  On the other hand, if you can get the word ‘blue’ to appear anywhere on the report, it will be worth the cost of the exam. 

The same general concept is likely true on you pear as well.  The word 'pink' is distinctly desirable and if GIA will put it on a report it's probably worth the cost.  Without it, especially if you are not yourself a designer where you can sell it mounted, it may not be.  

Edited by denverappraiser
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Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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1 hour ago, davidelevi said:

If it looks more pink rather than brown (there is also a "dark" component in orange), then generally I would assume small effect of fluorescence on price (and possibly a slightly positive one) - however it also depends on the extent of the variation: if it's very strong (variation in colour), then not everybody likes diamonds with multiple personalities... Sorry, I know I'm sitting on the fence, but it's really not an exact science.

I appreciate the feedback, I truly am passionate about diamonds so I am looking to learn as much as I can about them. Is there a way you can tell by eye if the evenness in color/tone is acceptable? the first image has been enhanced but it shows the clarity of the color in this stone.

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1 hour ago, denverappraiser said:

Most people will find a fancy dark grey to be difficult to sell.  It’s a fashion thing, and the issue is what market you’re selling to, not so much the ‘value’ of the stone. This isn’t like cashing a check, and it has a lot to do with your own distribution channels.  I suspect most stores would do better selling a thing like this mounted for example, and I doubt a GIA inspection would help much.  On the other hand, if you can get the word ‘blue’ to appear anywhere on the report, it will be worth the cost of the exam. 

The same general concept is likely true on you pear as well.  The word 'pink' is distinctly desirable and if GIA will put it on a report it's probably worth the cost.  Without it, especially if you are not yourself a designer where you can sell it mounted, it may not be.  

thank you for posting, so does the same apply for a grading of pinkish or blueish? I read somewhere that the color has to be 1/4 pink to be considered pinkish and 1/2 pink to be considered Pink.

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1 hour ago, davidelevi said:

If it looks more pink rather than brown (there is also a "dark" component in orange), then generally I would assume small effect of fluorescence on price (and possibly a slightly positive one) - however it also depends on the extent of the variation: if it's very strong (variation in colour), then not everybody likes diamonds with multiple personalities... Sorry, I know I'm sitting on the fence, but it's really not an exact science.

A video if you are interested in seeing a 360 

 

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Pink is the word you're hoping for, but pinkish is almost good enough.  Orangish is better than nothing but you probably won't get your lab fees back. Brown what you're avoiding.  Not that you have a choice.  If they call it a 'fancy light brown' it's going to be tough to sell.  

The customary reason to get the color only report is to avoid the clarity grade.  An I3 clarity grade, which is possible on the pear, is doing you no favors.  The fact that the color-only report is a little bit cheaper is just gravy. 

The standard for how much pink makes a diamond 'pinkish' is a bit like asking exactly how many drops make a drizzle into a rain, but the word they use is 'noticeable'.  

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Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I'm not GIA, and videos/photos provide at best the means for a guess, not for any form of serious grading, so take what follows with a big pinch of salt:

I am pretty sure that the colour distribution would be graded "even". There are no major coloured (or white) spots, even at the point, and it is quite uniform in tone.

Assuming the video and the second photo are an accurate portrayal of the colour, I don't think GIA is going to call it orangy-pink. I think it would be called brownish or brown pink. There is definitely enough pink in the stone that GIA won't ignore it and would likely put it as a primary colour.

This was graded FLoP:

peach diamond

and this was graded FlbP

pink diamondso it can be quite subtle at the best of times (and FWIW, I prefer the brownish pink to the orangy in this case!)

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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4 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

I'm not GIA, and videos/photos provide at best the means for a guess, not for any form of serious grading, so take what follows with a big pinch of salt:

I am pretty sure that the colour distribution would be graded "even". There are no major coloured (or white) spots, even at the point, and it is quite uniform in tone.

Assuming the video and the second photo are an accurate portrayal of the colour, I don't think GIA is going to call it orangy-pink. I think it would be called brownish or brown pink. There is definitely enough pink in the stone that GIA won't ignore it and would likely put it as a primary colour.

This was graded FLoP:

peach diamond

and this was graded FlbP

pink diamondso it can be quite subtle at the best of times (and FWIW, I prefer the brownish pink to the orangy in this case!)

 amazing, thank you so much for the honest opinion. I will definitely make sure this one gets a graded. This is very exciting!

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Ouch. Sorry. I really was hoping for pink!

Thank you for letting us know, and do stay around, please!

Also - consider using rose gold for setting the pear; it does bring out the colour!

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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1 hour ago, davidelevi said:

Ouch. Sorry. I really was hoping for pink!

Thank you for letting us know, and do stay around, please!

Also - consider using rose gold for setting the pear; it does bring out the colour!

Thank you, I will be here :)!   I really love the look of yellow gold with the pear but I may consider rose gold with the dark gray if it doesn't sell loose. it could be  worse. at least both are natural and even. the pear fell short of 1 ct though which really surprised me.  There is a 1.12 ct fancy dark brown princess cut that i had been wanting to have graded as well but people have said that i shouldn't expect a return from it, even certified.

 

 

 

I did have another question; how do you calculate if the proportions of a diamond are ideal?

Edited by Kali Tanisha Harris

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Ideal proportions - no recipe, except (to some extent) for colourless rounds and just maybe for princesses: there looking at AGS "ideal" proportions gives a pretty good start, but AGS itself no longer has a single set of proportions that it calls "ideal". Coloured diamonds are entirely different beasts as are fancy cuts. Fancy cuts in coloured diamonds are different beasts in a different universe!

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Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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