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Please Help To Rate This Ideal Scope / Aset Images


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Hi everyone!


Im buying an ER for my fiancee and came up with a diamond from Whiteflash premium selection that fits our requirement (1.5+ ct, G color or above, eye clean VS2 & 3ex none). The only concern is it has a HCA score of 2.3.


By looking at the GIA cert, photo, ideal scope & aset images, how good is it? Is it a high G color or low G color? Will it have better light return & fire than Tiffany diamonds? (my fiancee loves Tiffany rings but i couldn't afford one. I'm buying vatche U113 for the ring)






GIA Cert:



Depth % 61.9

Table % 55.0

Crown Angle 35.0

Star 55.0

Pavilion Angle 41.0

Crown % 15.5

Lower Girdle % 75.0


Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by kayi078
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1. Ignore the HCA. It simply is not relevant to your situation (if it is actually relevant to anything other than curiosity).


2. The diamond looks very nice on paper and in the photos. It also looks as if it's sold... If it is sold to you, by any means go ahead with the purchase - one question I would love to ask Whiteflash is why they didn't market it in their ACA range. To be clear: this is out of pure curiosity, it really looks very well cut, so I'm wondering what is it that made it not reach the top grade.


3. Colour - who knows. It is something that needs master stones, a very good chromatic sense and the diamond. Ask Whiteflash. To be honest, I very much doubt that you would notice the difference, and I'm pretty sure that no-one will be able to tell once it has been set.


4. Comparison with Tiffany diamonds. It's one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions, for at least three reasons:


i) Tiffany is pretty consistent at cutting, but not all of their diamonds are absolutely identical (not even Whiteflash's ACA or Paul Slegers' Crafted by Infinity or Hearts on Fire are identical, and I would say these three - and others - are significantly more consistent in their cut proportions for rounds than Tiffany). So the response to your question will depend on which specific "Tiffany" diamond you are comparing this one to. 


ii) "On average", as far as I can tell, this one is at least as well cut, and for my personal taste it is (slightly) better, since it has a smaller table and higher crown than the "typical" Tiffany diamond, and I prefer this look. Do you? Does your fiancée? It does come down to personal preferences.


iii) Even if you had a marked preference for a slightly lower crown and slightly larger table (which in theory result in a bit more brightness and a bit less fire), would you/she be able to see the difference? In which circumstances? (And would that make enough of a difference for you/her to reconsider the decision, even ignoring the budget constraint?) My bet is the answers are maybe yes, in direct comparisons of loose stones in a tray under different lighting, but I doubt it would be a big difference in favour of the Tiffany stone.


5. Congratulations!!!

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The stone will be an absolute beauty! For Sure. :)


Your also getting a lot of bang for the buck. Even without knowing what you paid, because it says SOLD.


GIA: G/VS2 (with that make) - is pretty much purrrrfect. Good choice.

Edited by ronk15a
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My preference on a RBC: is a slightly lower crown and slightly larger table which typically means the diamond will be comparatively brighter, with a little less fire like Davide described above.
Specs: I like 57% over 34.5°
Edited by ronk15a
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I'm not sure what 'Premium' means in the Whiteflash lexicon.  They use the brand 'A Cut Above' to promote in-house stones that they've inspected and they feel have super cutting and the brand 'Expert Selection' for stones that they're selling on behalf of someone else where they don't really know for sure.  They might be killer and they might not.  What does Premium mean?


As mentioned above, Tiffany does none of this.  Mostly they're pretty good but they're not talking.  They want you to see the brand name and end the discussion there. They don't answer technical questions. The bar isn't set all that high and it's usually easy enough to beat by those who try, but for people who love the brand because of the brand, a technical argument tends to fall on deaf ears.

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So what's concerning you is the 2.3 HCA, correct?

I'm not very worried, but what HCA is complaining about is the pavilion angle.  You've got 41.  They want 40.8.  Play 'what if' games with the HCA tool and you'll see what I mean. Bear in mind that what GIA is reporting is the average angle of the 8 pavilion mains that is then rounded to the nearest 0.2 degrees.  I would further point out that the Sarine equipment they're using to measure this reports a margin of error of +/- 0.1 deg. on these underlying measurements.  

Put bluntly, this is splitting hairs in a BIG way.

Edited by denverappraiser
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As you mentioned the crown and pavilion angles are rounded in GIA cert, I found below formula to restore the exact value of it. After calculation I have


34.56 crown angles (Was 35)

40.69 pavilion angles (Was 41)

Table 55%

Depth 61.9%


I put these numbers on HCA and have a score of 1.0, which is pretty good to me. Thanks.



Formula (Copied from other forum)


1. Enter the Pavilion depth into your calculator. 
2. Divide this by 50. 
3. There is a button on many calculators labelled “Tan –1â€, or it may be written in small writing above the “Tan†button. Press the “Tan –1†button (or if it is written above the “Tan†button, press the shift button, then the “Tan†button). This is the exact pavilion angle in degrees.

Eg. Pavilion depth = 43.1
43.1/50 = 0.862
“Tan –1†0.862 = 40.76. This is the exact pavilion angle in degrees

1. Divide the Table by 100
2.Subtract this from 1
3. Multiply this by 50
4. Store this figure
5. Divide the Crown depth by the above figure
6. Press the “Tan-1†key. This is the exact crown angle in degrees

Eg. Table = 53 Crown depth=16.2
53/100 = 0.53
1-0.53 = 0.47
50x0.47 = 23.5
16.2/23.5 = 0.68936
“Tan –1†= 34.58. This is the exact crown angle in degrees

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The maths introduces more approximation than the measurements themselves do... and you cannot "restore" rounded-off numbers except under rather exceptional assumptions.


I stand by my original comment that the HCA is not relevant in this case - if it ever is - and that you should keep the stone.




Neil: I thought Stevie Wonder was God. Or possibly Ray Charles (hence the aphorism from Ionesco: Marx is dead, God is dead, and I don't feel too well myself).


Oh, well, learning something new every day.

Edited by davidelevi
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I have one more question


I bought a H&A viewer from ebay for 5 bucks and used it to inspect my sister's E-ring (GIA 3ex), , which has a HCA score of 4.5~. I'm surprised that i could easily see 8 silver arrows. Why is it? I thought the diamond would have uneven or messy arrows since it has a bad HCA score. 


If i can see 8 silver arrows does it mean the diamond is H&A? thanks.

Edited by kayi078
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HCA has nothing do with it.  


Arrows doesn't mean hearts, or visa versa.  They're looking at different things.  You see the hearts from the back with an unmounted stone.  

Peoples standards vary on what is arrows and what are just close to arrows.  The range is pretty big but starting with GIA-xxx makes it pretty likely that you'll see at least something that looks arrowlike.  Again, HCA has nothing to do with it.

Edited by denverappraiser
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  • 2 months later...

Hi everyone,

Over-researcher here. I have over analyzed this purchase to death for the last several months.  I just received the following ASET image from Blue Nile.  Should be concerned with all the white spots of light leakage?  I've also included the Blue Nile link to the stone (it's showing as unavailable since I have it on courtesy hold).




Please help! (ASET attached)




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