32 replies to this topic

[CobaltC4S]

Hi Guys,

Well it's that time, and usually I feel very comfortable when I buy a car, or house, or anything else for that matter as I usually put a lot of research into what assets I purchase. With a ring/rock, I'm a little weary and I would like to come to the experts for some honest advice.

I'm 26yrs old and budget is a little important to me at the moment. I am currently looking at this ring at a very reputable jewellery store in Ottawa, Canada: http://www.jackkelege.com/deploy/KGR1008-1.htm

I would like to know people's opinions on the ring itself and the choice of diamond I should compliment it with. I got quoted $5,600 CAD for the ring, and it's of course up to me how much I want to spend on the stone. I would like the ring to be platinum so the jeweller mentioned it would be an extra thousand.

My total budget would be 11 - 12K for the whole ring. What should I be looking for in terms of the diamond?

I'm sorry if I did not provide enough information...

Thanks!

Alin

Edited by CobaltC4S, 29 May 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[davidelevi]

Opinion based on a 15 second video and a photo on the site... so take with a pinch of salt.

Pros:
There's a lot of it - quite good if you want to stand out
It seems well finished
It's a fairly original/uncommon design

Cons:
There's a lot of it - not ideal if you want to blend in
It's tall on the hand, so it can snag and bump into things
It's not cheap - particularly considering your total budget
Last but not least, it's designed for a cushion, not a round, and fitting a round into it looks like an afterthought, leaving considerable air gaps.

Two points that are neither pros nor cons: there is little to no information about what you are getting in terms of materials, nor any information on manufacturing methods etc. - not a style I am comfortable with, particularly since I don't know the jeweller, and slick low definition videos of smiling models don't impress me at all.

Secondly, the uniqueness of the design makes it a less safe bet than a classic. Make sure that your fiancée loves it before committing - particularly with a custom design, once you are in, there is no return (or at least no return of your money!)

As to which stone you should put into it, the only fixed points we have at this point are the fact that the setting is designed for a cushion (or would they re-do it for you as a round?) and the price/your budget. You could get a good full-carat (1.10 or so) cushion H/VS2 for about $6000 which would more or less fit with your budget, look white and be definitely eye-clean. The significant question for me is: to what extent would they tie you in to "their" stones, and what would they provide for the price... since for the ring to look right it has to be built around the stone, not the other way around.

Other than this, the sky's the limit... tell us more on what you (or your SO) would like and what attracts you to something, and we may be able to fence it in a little more.

(ETA: fixed typo)

Edited by davidelevi, 25 May 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[CobaltC4S]

Thank you for the stern reply, It's actually exactly the type of response I was looking for!

I want to apologize for my lack of knowledge on the subject, this is why i'm doing my research in advance. I could disect a Porsche into pieces but this is just not my specialty, so please bare with me and I'll try to supply all the answers and information needed.

I like this ring for it's uniqueness and craftsmenship. The cons you mentioned do not deter me much. The ring does not sit very high surprisingly and I can deal with a cushion instead of a round. I am waiting for more specific information on this ring... Once i receive it, I'll post it here. In the meantime here is a link to one without the rose gold: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jack-kelege-romance-cushion-set-diamond-semi-mount-ring/3212176?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=jack_kelege_'romance'_cushion_set_diamond_semi_mount_ring:383781&cm_pla=jewelry:women:ring&cm_ven=thefindcpc&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=6F1E06D5-4962-E111-8435-001517B1882A

She is very content on the unique design and this is not a worry either.

I will update you Monday with more specs and pricing. Thanks again for the response!!

Alin

Edited by CobaltC4S, 25 May 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[davidelevi]

You are most welcome. There is no need to apologise; asking questions is what the forum is for!

FWIW - I prefer the version with the rose gold.

And if you need help with taking the Porsche apart, give me a call.

Edited by davidelevi, 25 May 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[CobaltC4S]

You are most welcome. There is no need to apologise; asking questions is what the forum is for!

FWIW - I prefer the version with the rose gold.

And if you need help with taking the Porsche apart, give me a call.

You are most welcome. There is no need to apologise; asking questions is what the forum is for!

FWIW - I prefer the version with the rose gold.

And if you need help with taking the Porsche apart, give me a call.

I also prefer the rose gold accents and will be going for that one. The jeweller contacted me and upgraded the price to $6985 for the setting to be in platinum. The diamonds supplied with this mount are VS-SI clarity and G-H colour... What do you think?

[davidelevi]

The issue is that with your budget, spending $7k for the setting leaves $5 for the centre, which is not much...

[CobaltC4S]

I know i can negotiate down to 6k flat for the setting. Then I will have 6k for the stone. Main thing here is to see what kind of stone they can offer me for that price...

I wish i had you there with me lol

[davidelevi]

Happy to help, and I love Canada, but I'm not planning a trip to that part of the world for another few months...

[CobaltC4S]

Ok, So I just received the e-mail I was waiting for from Howards Jeweller.

As I mention, the clarity varies from VS1 to SI2, that is why he called it VS-SI and the colour varies also from G to H colour on the diamonds that come with the setting.

2-On this ring the diamonds supplied amount to a 0.48ct tdw.

3-The center stone is round.

The best diamond that they can offer me is 0.81ct SI1/G 3 x Excellent cut for $6071.00 CAD. (I told him my budget was 6k for the stone).

I feel like this is an awful deal....

Can anyone give me a bit of insight on this quote. I am thinking of buying the setting in platinum for roughly 6K and finding the stone somewhere else...

Edited by CobaltC4S, 29 May 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[davidelevi]

I wouldn't call it awful, but you can certainly do better purely on the price of the centre stone (think somewhere between US$4 and $4.5k from a competitive online dealer); this is without tax (VAT/GST).

Couple of ideas:

1. Have you asked them what they could find you as far as cushions go? It may or may not look "bigger" than a 0.80 round but at least it will weigh more and will carry a little bragging rights.
2. Would they considering price matching and/or acting as brokers for a "cheaper" stone listed on somebody else's website?
3. Would they work on a stone supplied by you and build the setting around it?

Although you don't sound fussed about what I see as the mismatch between the setting design (cushion) and the stone you want (round), at the very least you should minimise matching problems by letting them have the centre stone before you ask them to build you a setting... otherwise the whole reason why you are paying a premium - i.e. to have a custom-made setting - is called into question.

[CobaltC4S]

Ok, well this ring is made by Jack Kelege and I'm sure that if I somehow supply the stone, they will make it work and fit it in, but without warranty on the stone.

From what I have seen on the internet, this ring is always supplied with a round stone. But judging by the cushion setting, a cushion stone would probably work better. I posed this question to the person I'm dealing with at Howards.

This is the ring that I and the misses chose together so it has to be this ring for the premium price of 6K flat, with the rose gold accents and in platinum. Now my main issue is the selection of the stone and price. I asked the above questions which you mentioned and I am awaiting a response. I will update you as soon as I can.

What is VAT?

Also, the big buzz around here are Canadian diamonds. That's all I've been hearing, and that's all people have been boasting.... I'm not sure what type he quoted me for but if in fact it is a Canadian diamond, I'm sure it's an inflated price.

[CobaltC4S]

Ok so, here is the scoop: (answers from them)

"1. I can order this ring for a cushion shape diamond, but an alteration fee must be paid to do such a change.

2. We are very competitive at time of pricing diamonds. When we are comparing diamonds, we like to compare apples to apples. When we look at a diamond we just don't look at the 4 c's we also look at proportions, thickness of the griddle, fluorescence, etc. Let me know which diamond and I can advise you accordingly. If you will like to go with another stone sold by some one else, we can price match on the same equivalent diamond plus $650.00. That will include the setting cost of the diamond and it will cover the diamond if something will happen to it while we are setting it.

3. Yes we can work with your own supplied diamond. We will have to charge you $150.00 for the setting and also you will be required to sign a waver removing any responsibility from us for any damages that might occur during setting."

[denverappraiser]

Within reasonable limits and 'alteration' fee is fine. Do make sure that they're making a ring to fit your stone and not retrofitting a ring made for something else.

Pricematch plus $500 to cover the setting insurance is a little unusual but it's worth considering. Buying your own insurance in the US costs about 1% of the declared value plus the cost of an appraisal but I don't know if this is available in Canada. www.jewelersmutual.com. There's definitely something to be said for bundling it all from one supplier when you can. He's right about the whole 'apples to apples' thing but this cuts both ways. Pay attention to what he's calling equivalent to what.

$150 setting fee is reasonable.

VAT is Value Added Tax. It's what the Euro's call their equivalent of Sales Tax. Canada has another acronym for it but the effect is the same. GST I think? You know better than us. Surely you encounter it on nearly everything you buy.

Edited by denverappraiser, 29 May 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[davidelevi]

In more or less the order that you called them out:

VAT = Value Added Tax. In Canada it is called GST/HST (but it is a value added tax from the point of view of its working)

Canadian diamonds: fine if that's what you want... But as you point out it does come at a price. Many people are attracted to the idea of "it's definitely not a blood diamond".

1. I'd check directly with Kelege, not the dealer... it seems decidedly odd to leave gaps around the centre stone.

2. Taurine excrement. Proportions and thickness of the girdle is what is known as "cut", and particularly for round diamonds this has been systematised and made much easier to compare. Fluorescence may or may not be an issue (it is not for me), but it would have a 5-10% effect, not a 30% one.

If they want to play the game, here's a diamond where I'd like their explanation of why it's way over $1000 cheaper (and it's a VS2): http://www.briangavi...GS-104057253028

and here's another one about $2000 cheaper - and still a VS2:
http://www.briangavi...nd-gia-36621586

Other than that - I think Neil has answered your questions re: what is reasonable and it isn't. They seem to be treating you reasonably well!

[CobaltC4S]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the help in this, I really appreciate it and I have come a long way from my first post!

Here is the status... They offered me the Jack Kelege ring at the quoted price of $6985 CAD in Platinum. I will try to negotiate it to 6K flat once I tell them that I'll be paying cash at the end of this ordeal.

Now the diamond. I showed them the suggested ones you posted here in regards to price matching and competition, and they offered me the 0.82ct VS2-G 3x Excellent DIA certified for $4850 CAD. I will ask for a better price considering I will be paying cash once again...

Now, the setting with tax is $7893 CAD and combined with the diamond will equal to 12,743. I will try to negotiate to 12K flat by paying cash.

The only thing that I would like to do is jump up to a 1ct. Can anyone source me the best deal on a 1ct with the best available specs for roughly 5k? Is that even available or am I wishful thinking?

[davidelevi]

Depends on what you mean by wishful thinking. It is totally wishful thinking if you want a round, well cut G/VS2.

If you sacrifice cut, you can find a few, but you run the risk that they will look decidedly lifeless, and in most cases they won't look any bigger than a well cut 0.80 (but they will have a thick girdle and possibly a very tall and steep crown). Definitely would not recommend it.

Another way of "sacrificing" cut is to change shape. A square G/VS2 cushion will cost around $5500 for a 1.00 stone, but 1) it won't look any bigger than a 0.80 round and 2) you may have extra cost to modify the mount (which still sounds very odd to me, but never mind)

If you sacrifice clarity, you'd need to push things down to I1. It might work - there are eye-clean I1s, but they are few and far between, and in some cases you are also sacrificing cut because the cutter has to work around the inclusions to minimise their visibility and risk to the stone's integrity. Chancy, and it may take a long time.

If you sacrifice colour, a decently cut K or L will come in for $5000. It will look yellow through the side and in some circumstances from the top. You can counteract some of the colour impression picking a stone with blue fluorescence, but that will work only in natural light. Here is an example of such a "dual personality" stone:

http://www.youtube.com/v/HnE4hFBeyiI

It also happens to be just below $5000, it has a stunning cut, it is eye clean, and at 1.51 it will look larger than a 1.00 round. However - sting in the tail - it is rectangular...

[CobaltC4S]

Thanks again for the reply!

I do not plan on sacrificing cut, shape, clarity, colour or have excessive fluorescence as the one in the Youtube clip. I agree 100% with you in the sense that a lot of these characteristics play a major factor in a stone and should not be underestimated or down-played if you could call it that, in a proper diamond.



I guess the only options I have is to bump this into a 1.00 all around quality diamond by increasing my budget or either settling for this one as they are offering me a pretty decent stone/setting combo with decent incentives (free cleaning, warranty for life... etc..)
I think I will ask them to source me a 1.00 round with roughly the same specs as the 0.82 one they are currently offering me as a last inquiry, just to see what I would be looking at price wise. I feel like the stone should at least be a 1.00

[davidelevi]

Actually, fluorescence is a positive characteristic in a low colour stone - as long as it doesn't cause the diamond to become murky, but that's pretty rare. See here: http://lgdl.gia.edu/...7_fluoresce.pdf

For the 1.00, expect roughly double the price than the 0.80.

[denverappraiser]

Kelege is not what you would call a discount sort of manufacturer and it's a little hard to shop around for dealers who will sell their things for less but, even so, the bulk of your money is going for the diamond. That said, I agree with Davide that you're budget isn't going to make it. Assuming they agree to what you want, I guarantee that SOMETHING is off, an usually it's about the grading. You are going to end up compromising on at least one of the things on your list that you'll never compromise, raise the price, or both. The issue will be whether the compromise is acceptable to you. Moderate fluorescence can bring down the price a few percent but where the money happens is cut, color, clarity and size.

[CobaltC4S]

Actually, fluorescence is a positive characteristic in a low colour stone - as long as it doesn't cause the diamond to become murky, but that's pretty rare. See here: http://lgdl.gia.edu/...7_fluoresce.pdf

For the 1.00, expect roughly double the price than the 0.80.

In the situation you are mentioning, yes, it would be a positive, but I do not plan on puchasing a low colour stone.