18 replies to this topic

[Vexed]

Hi Guys,

I need the experts' help here...I'm about to purchase a Platinum engagment ring.

It has a Princess cut diamond (GIA Certified) with the following details:

Rectangular Modified Brilliant

Measurements: 5.13 x 4.76 x 3.95 mm
Carat Weight: 0.84 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VVS1

Proportions:

Depth: 82.9%
Table: 68%
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Very Thick
Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

Clarity Characteristics:
Cloud

What I'm worried about is the table an depth proprtions. Is this a good shiney diamond?

The price i'm paying for this ring is $4,800.

Please let me know your thoughts, any help is much appreciated.

I've attached an image of the ring (sorry it is not that sharp)

Cheers,
Bob

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Vexed, 20 January 2012 - 05:07 AM.

[davidelevi]

Impossible to say, unfortunately. You would need a lot more information, including several large scale, high quality pictures of the diamond and some ASET or IdealScope images to even hazard a guess.

The 83% depth is not a good sign, and neither is the thick girdle, at least as far as visible size of the stone goes, but this does not imply it is a poor-looking stone. Have you compared it with other princess cut stones?

Price-wise, it's within the range of similar stones. It is priced at a premium for the high colour and clarity (which you won't see compared say to a G/VS2), but it suffers from looking small and being off-square; whether it is a good diamond depends on what you want - personally, I'd trade colour and clarity to get a better cut, but this is my personal preference.

[Vexed]

Thank you very much for your reply. What noticed at that shop is all the gia certified diamonds have similar characteristics. Other shops would charge about $6000 for diamonds with similar clarity and colour, but better depth and table (after doing some research about the "ideal" princess cut diamond)... So that got me a little bit susspicious...
Unfortunately I couldn't take more pics of the ring...
Hmmmmm I think I need to reconsider my options here....

Thanks for the heads up davidelevi.

Cheers,
Bob

[davidelevi]

Be careful about depth and table - they aren't "good" parameters to determine cut quality beyond some very broad range. And even then, you may well find lovely stones that just don't "fit" the normal scheme of things. Depth over 80% is usually not good, and neither is a depth below 60% for a princess cut, but there isn't any way of saying "70 is better (or worse) than 75".

[Vexed]

To be honest I never thought buying a diamond would be that complicated All I was looking for is the 4C's...
I will research a bit more and look for other diamonds, hopefully I will get a good deal for the budget I have
I shall update you when I'm about to make a purchase, hopefully with way more info.

Cheers,
Bob

[davidelevi]

Well, the only truly complicated C is cut, particularly for non-rounds. If you want some light reading, although focused on rounds, here is a good starting place...http://www.gia.edu/diamondcut/

[Vexed]

Hi David,

In general, what do you think of Blue Nile Signature Ideal diamonds?

This one for example:
[url="http://au.bluenile.com/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-vs1-clarity_LD02359832"][url]http://au.bluenile.com/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-vs1-clarity_LD02359832[/url][/url]
OR
[url="http://au.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD02399656"][url][url]http://au.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD02399656[/url][/url][/url]

I'm leaning towards the second one, What do you think?

Thank you for your time.

Edited by Vexed, 21 January 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[davidelevi]

In general, with Signature Ideal you are paying a premium for more information on the diamond and some upgrade benefits. Meaning there are diamonds with exactly the same characteristics going for somewhat less (even some retailed by Blue Nile), but you need to spend some time and effort to find them. Picking a round Signature Ideal ensures that you get a modern "superideal" cut. If you like that style and don't fancy spending time and effort in finding one, it's not an unreasonable shortcut. The value of the "lifetime upgrade" depends very heavily on what you want to do in the future, and frankly with a doubling in price it is of limited value in any case (upgrade 4 times, and you are spending 16x the original outlay).

FWIW, if I need reassurance on cut quality, my preference would be to get the diamond from someone who actually sees it, rather than a drop-shipper, but this is a whole 'nother story.

On the two diamonds - you posted the same twice...

[denverappraiser]

You started out asking proportion questions about a VVS princess that you were considering but now seem to be looking at VS rounds. That's a significant change. Is it deliberate?

Edited by denverappraiser, 21 January 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Vexed]

denverappraiser, on 21 January 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

You started out asking proportion questions about a VVS princess that you were considering but now seem to be looking at VS rounds. That's a significant change. Is it deliberate?

Hi Neil,

You are corrcect, my budget is about a $5K ring, so according to David, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if it was VS or VVS, so I thought I might be able to get a nice sparkly VS diamond... The issue here is whenever I go to a shop here, they try to sell me SI diamonds certified by IGL for the same price or even more... Hence I thought to try Blue Nile and their "Signature Ideal" diamonds.

David, I'm sorry I've updated the links on my post.

Cheers,
Bob

[denverappraiser]

Hi Bob,

I agree about the VVS/VS thing and would even include correctly graded SI1 and some SI2's in that. Round vs Princess is, of course, a completley different issue as well.

Davide's summary of the benefits of the 'signature ideal' program at BN and elsewhere is good. It saves time and legwork in exchange for a slightly higher price. It's worth noting that BN has literally thousands of competitors for this business. They are far from the only choice beyond local stores. It's also worth noting that the locals are often more negotiable than you might expect both in terms of pricing and what sorts of goods they can get in.

Where are you?

Edited by denverappraiser, 21 January 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[davidelevi]

Hi Bob - the comparison is a tough one. The two diamonds will look very different, and personal preferences have to play a significant part in your choice.

FWIW, I'd much rather have the round. It's going to look significantly larger, it has fewer durability problems (no sharp corners), it is easier to set in a variety of settings, it will be slightly easier to resell (less subject to fashion) and I much prefer the light play in rounds to that in princesses. However, it is more traditional and some people prefer the square, modern look of a princess. There is no right answer, unfortunately.

[Vexed]

Thank you guys,
You are just very helpful, and please excuse my ignorance

I don't have a preference to be honest, they both look good...

I'm in Sydney Australia.
I think I have to drive a little bit further to get a better deal

Cheers,
Bob

[davidelevi]

No need to apologise; that's what the forum is for!

You may not have a preference, but what does she prefer? Does she wear any jewellery that may give you a clue? When she dresses up, does she tend towards classic elegance or a sporty/edgy look?

[Vexed]

Hi David,

Sorry for the late reply, I've been extremely busy with some stuff at work. 'what does she prefer' you are actually correct, all I was thinking about is best for my money, a typical guy LOL... She preferes brilliant cut diamonds...
I did some more research, and I stopped across James Allen, what do you think of their True Hearts Diamonds? is it worth the premium price? I'm willing to increase the budget to 7 - 8 K.

Cheers,
Bob

[Liz]

Hi Bob,

It looks like you are getting closer to picking out a beautiful stone. I'm glad that this forum can help guide you. As for James Allen's True Hearts Diamonds, these diamonds are similar to what Neil referenced above, in that they can save you time and offer the convenience factor of sourcing a well cut and certified stone. 'True Hearts' diamonds are simply James Allen's own "hearts and arrows" brand.

It seems that many diamond venders are now following in Glenn Rothman's (Hearts on Fire) footsteps in terms of branding their own diamond cut. As the diamond consumer becomes more informed and better educated, most will come to desire quality more than anything else. Since cut is the single most important factor in determining a diamond's brilliance (light reflection), many don't mind investing in this characteristic.

James Allen's True Hearts diamonds are all triple zero, ideal cut grade from AGS. You may find better deals with local stores but if convenience and peace of mind is important, you probably won't go wrong with them.

Edited by Liz, 25 January 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[Vexed]

Hi Liz,

Thank you very much... You are probably right, I should've thought about it just like the "Signature Ideal" cut of BlueNile
Local shops around me are just a big disappointment, I go there and I can see them trying to rip me off
As you mentioned, brilliance is what I'm after... aaah if the economic situation was better I would have paid 20 or 30 K for a diamond full of fire... looking at those diamonds on BN and JA is just sooooo tempting LOL.

Regards,
Bob

[Liz]

You're very welcome Bob.

[denverappraiser]

Skilled photography is a big piece of the online business approach and the two you've chosen are both quite good at it. Some of what you're seeing is just good salesmanship in the same vein that the good local stores have excellent lighting on the sales floor but it's correct that neighborhood stores tend to charge more than the online folks, often by quite a bit. If price is your hot button, online in the US is where you should be shopping, especially if you're inclined to be picky. If you're buying from overseas, don't forget to include the taxes you'll have to pay when the goods enter the country. I think it's about 15% in Australia. I'm sure Her Majesty's taxman will be happy to tell you if you ask (or even if you don't). Those are already part of the prices at the stores and you'll have to pay them separately if you import.