11 replies to this topic

[christy]

Hello
I am looking for a quite white diamond for a solitare ring.I wonder if you can help please. We have been quoted around £8000 for a GIA certified ring. As I remember it was H,SI1 i think). This is way over our budget and after lots and lots of research and looking on the internet I found a site which offers an EGL europe certified loose diamond 1.51, Grade D (I expect the equivelent GIA would be graded lower but I'm just hoping its white not yellowish) SI2, excellent cut for £4300 - see link for EGL report. As you can see on the link there are few inclusions, just three lines?.Would this be an advantage over lots of little inclusions? I am sooo tired of looking and its getting very stressfull as when I goto a jewelers the price is too much or I can't get a straight answer?

[url="http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/bodethomas/diamond/"][url]http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/bodethomas/diamond/[/url][/url]


I would be grateful for any advice

Kindest regards
Christy

Attached Thumbnails

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[davidelevi]

1) There is no way to assess whether the three lines (presumably feathers) are good, bad or indifferent without seeing the diamond in person. At worst they may be prejudicial to the integrity of the stone. At best, you can't see them without a loupe.

2) You have no indication of what colour or clarity the diamond really is, and therefore whether it is going for a fair price or not. Let's assume the price is OK for what the diamond really IS (as opposed to the grade that someone gave it) - the fact that it's right at the bottom of prices for EGL-1.5x-D/SI2 makes me think there are significant problems with the stone. It may look dreadfully included; it may risk breaking up when set or if looked at too hard; it may be so poorly cut that a Swarowski crystal looks much better. Or all three.

If you have seen it, you like it, and the vendor is prepared to stand behind it with some sort of warranty, then it may be OK. Personally, I would rather buy something slightly smaller (going below 1.50 to 1.40 will save you 30% for no visible difference in size) and GIA-graded so that I know what I'm buying rather than taking a bet of this size, but it's not my money.

[christy]

Hi.

I have just joined up so thanks for your prompt reply!

No I haven't seen the stonejust the EGL cert ificate online but apparantly it is possible to make an appointment to view (hopefully the stone /stones of choice). The company also will set the stone and have a variety of rings available. It says they are members of the BJA. Does that give any credability?
Going smaller is a good option. I will look at the GIA equivalent is for a bit smaller but they are so expensive, but I suppose you get what you pay for?
My fingers aren't very dainty and I have a solitare of around 1ct so didn't want a ringt that would be nearly the same. This will be my 1st engagement ring at the age of 43! I have been doing alot of the looking as my partner is quite busy and more tired of looking than me! Maybe i'm just more interested! lol.
I will also enquire about warranty. Thank you for your helpful advice.

[davidelevi]

Hello Christy,

From the BJA site (http://www.bja.org.u...e-bja/index.cfm)

Quote

The British Jewellers’ Association is the national trade association which promotes and protects the growth and prosperity of UK jewellery and silverware suppliers.

This is the first sentence, BTW, not buried in the middle of a ton of other things. I'm not sure how this is going to benefit you as a consumer. Apart from that, a vendor that sells a 1.50 round for $4300 and calls it D/SI2 has shot whatever credibility may come with any letters after their business's name.

Shopping "a.n. other lab" vs. GIA is a false economy. A GIA report for a 1.50 stone costs $110. What makes the difference to the price is the stone, not the report. GIA's prices are here: http://www.gia.edu/l...-Diamond-US.pdf

Frankly, if your budget is around $5000 and you want a large(ish) stone, I would consider something other than your traditional white round diamond. Could be a sapphire, could be a brown diamond, could be a simulant. Or go different rather than larger: get a step-cut (emerald or Asscher) diamond, get a fancy intense yellow diamond, an old cut diamond, a halo setting, a three-stone setting... my fear is that if you try to stay within the traditional white diamond solitaire you will end up with so many trade-offs that it's not going to be a very nice ring. JMHO.

[christy]

Good morning David,

Hmmmm? I will look again at the GIA prices for lower grades. You put $ in your reply however I was talking in british pounds. Did you mean pounds?
I thought it cost at least £1000 for a GIA report! i thought this was partly why the stones cost more (as well as being a more accurate report). Thanksfor the information about that.
I really want a white stone as it is for an engagement (hopefully, lol). I don't mind other cuts but my partner only likes round. I would go down to size 1.3ct ish. What do you think of buying a secondhand GIA certified e.g. from auction. Would that make it any cheaper?

Thank you!
Christy

[christy]

Hi,

I read that Flourescence isn't really an issue when buying a diamond? I have seen the following GIA cert diamond but it has strong flourescence.

Stock number: LD02330085 Price: £5,312 [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=bank_wire"]Bank wire price:[/url] £5,233 [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=pricepercarat"]Price per carat:[/url] £3,541 [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=carat"]Carat weight:[/url] 1.50 [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/cut_pop.jsp?cut=Very%20Good"]Cut:[/url] Very Good [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/color_pop.jsp?color=H"]Colour:[/url] H [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/clarity_pop.jsp?clarity=SI2"]Clarity:[/url] SI2
[url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=depthpercentage"]Depth %:[/url] 63.1% [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=tablepercentage"]Table %:[/url] 59% [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=polish"]Polish:[/url] Excellent [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=symmetry"]Symmetry:[/url] Good [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=girdle"]Girdle:[/url] Slightly Thick to Thick [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=culet"]Culet:[/url] None [url="http://www.bluenile.co.uk/glossary.jsp?word=fluorescence"]Fluorescence:[/url] Strong Blue Measurements: 7.22 x 7.14 x 4.53 mm

[christy]

OR This one from usa. !

Specifications:This Excellent cut, H-color, I1-clarity diamond comes with a [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/GIA_Certificate"]GIA certificate[/url]

[url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Measurements"]Length[/url]: 7.21 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Measurements"]Width[/url]: 7.25 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Measurements"]Depth[/url]: 4.51 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Length_to_Width_Ratio"]L/W Ratio[/url]: 1.01 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Depth"]Depth %[/url]: 62.3 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Table"]Table %[/url]: 59.0 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Culet"]Culet[/url]: None [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Girdle"]Girdle[/url]: Medium - Slightly Thick [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Carat_Weight"]Carat Weight[/url]: 1.46 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Polish"]Polish[/url]: Excellent [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Symmetry"]Symmetry[/url]: Excellent [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Fluorescence"]Fluorescence[/url]: Medium Item #: 31410634 Total Price: $6,099 [url="http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/glossary/Price_per_Carat"]Price-per-carat[/url]: $4,177

[davidelevi]

HI Christy,

Apologies - I misread the £ signs for $ ones... that changes my view around "not able to get a good 1.50-ish stone". $8k/£5k is a more reasonable budget. The rest of my comments I think still stand.

On fluorescence: it is not a concern in 99.99% of cases, and it usually means a discount compared to a non-fluorescent diamond. There are some, rare, stones which are so strongly fluorescent that the stone takes on a milky/hazy appearance in sunlight. If the BN stone is one of them, BN should know (or at the very worst you can return it with no concerns as to VAT/duty, since BN has a UK subsidiary). Give them a call.

On both the BN and the Lumera diamonds the key question is whether the inclusions are visible. Which is usually a tough-to-answer question when one has the diamond in hand, but it becomes impossible when all we have is a report (or not even that). Again, ask them - and make sure you understand whether they have actually seen the diamond or are getting you third-hand information (very likely in the case of Blue Nile, because of their business model).

Second question, again on both diamonds, is why are they graded "Very Good" cut, rather than excellent. This is something that can usually be understood from the report - if you can find the report numbers (or a link to them) on the sites.

[christy]

Hi David,

I have attached both GIA reports. the blue Nile stone is graded V. Good and the Lumara Excellent.

Regarding inclusions, I dont mind something visable to the eye but not very obvious to look at unless closely examined by the naked eye.
A jeweller tried to show me inclusions in a ring and I really struggled to see them, in fact not sure if we were looking at the same thing!
SoI may be able to find the slighty lower price I am after if the stone has flourecence but not as to get the cloudy look.I saw this in a jewelers only. They showed me a cloudy diamond and said it was due to flourescence.
I will give the companies a call to see if they have seen the diamond and can give me more info on the inclusions from someone who has seen the ring or veiw it, but lumara is in the USA!
If i was happy with the look of the stone would you say it represents good value??

Thanks for your time on this. I'm nearly there!

Regards
Christy

[davidelevi]

For that matter, Blue Nile and the vast majority of its suppliers are in the US too - there is a UK-registered branch which means that import/export/VAT shenanigans are easier to take care of, but when it comes to giving you information on the diamonds, that is going to come from the US... so, don't worry and get them to work for you.

BTW, the H/I1 is advertised by another two vendors here on the Diamond Finder, and it's priced $2-300 less. Give those vendors a call, rather than Lumera...

The prices are within reason - but for the SI2 they are at the low end of the range. Therefore, I can only assume that the inclusions are quite visible. Whether this is going to be worse or better than those on the I1, I cannot say - nobody can without seeing the diamonds. The I1 also seems to be significantly better cut

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Here is a diamond that I would buy instead of either of the two you have picked:

http://www.diamondre...31&item=1442320

not least because I can see that it is likely to be eye clean (the crystals that are the main inclusions seem to be diamonds - they are transparent!). It is likely to be extremely well cut, and is about 0.2 mm smaller than the two you picked - still noticeably larger than a 1 carat diamond. Whether that's enough difference for you, I don't know. But a great cut and more-or-less guaranteed eye-cleanness would attract me more than a small size difference.

[christy]

Hello,

Thanks again for your reply.I looked at the odiamond that you would choose and looked a few more times. Sounds lovely. I think this size would be fine.
Is length the diameter of the top view of the stone? if so how come it is different to the width? I thought being round it would be just one diameter.
I looked on the internet and it seems AGS is about on a par with GIA.
I have still to look on diamond finder. I will keep you updated but i think with the help you have given me I am in a much better position to make an informed choice.

Thank you

[davidelevi]

What the AGS report (or the Blue Nile description) call length and width are the minimum and maximum diameter. The diamond is not perfectly round, no diamond ever is (if you look at the GIA reports, there are also two numbers there, like 7.22-7.28), but an out-of-round of 0.7% is OK!

Edited by davidelevi, 16 December 2011 - 05:40 AM.