13 replies to this topic

[ats200]

Some of you may remember viewing a recent post of mine which has been on and off for the past month or so.

I recently purchased an engagement ring however, it was a special order as I had to go through Hearts on Fire for the setting I wanted. Since the order, there have been some complications, but they have all been cleared (so I'm told). Now the diamond and setting are being sent to HOF to be set in their workshop and will be returned mid-November.

My question is... when does one typically receive all of the documentation, etc. regarding the diamonds? Should I have it now or when I actually receive the finished product? My jeweler is very reputable in the area so I'm not necessarily questioning integrity, but I feel like the sales staff obviously tried to take advantage of me while I was buying. I studied up quite a bit before actually going to the store and being a quite person, I never really called them out on any of their sales tactics.

Because of this, I just want to be sure I'm actually receiving the diamonds for which I paid. (this is mainly in regards to the complications mentioned previously)

[denverappraiser]

Usually dealers will give you the paperwork at the same time they give you the merchandise. Have you ASKED? What did they tell you?

If you aren' confident that you are getting what you paid for, get it appraised by an independent appraiser as soon as you get it.

[davidelevi]

+1.

And make sure it's an independent - meaning not another jeweller.

[ats200]

Thank you for the responses. I've been going back and forth with my jeweler and I received this response today (5 days after purchase): "The HOF 2 diamonds do not receive certification from GIA, but we will have an HOF certificate, as well as our sale documentation for you. I will get a current value for the diamond so that it can be properly insured."

This is what made me skeptical in the first place. They kept showing me diamonds that were "HOF 2" which they explained were old stock that were sent there at a discounted price from jewelers who no longer sell HOF jewelry. To me, they all looked fine under the scope and loop but honestly, what do I know?

To explain my situation... I bought a brand new HOF setting which had to be ordered from the company. I bought an unbranded center stone to go along with it. A few days later I get a call saying HOF won't allow the use of non-HOF diamonds in their settings. They then present me with this "HOF 2" diamond of equal quality for MUCH more money. I told them no, the deal is over, cancel it. They then negotiated on price and I got the HOF 2 diamond for the same price after a long time of explaining how much they screwed me.

Now, again, after the purchase, I receive bad news. I'm getting a center stone that they pitched to me as being a hearts on fire diamond, but it comes with no certification.

Is there any way I can possibly approach this without cancelling my order and ruining the proposal which is set for a specific date? Maybe contact HOF directly?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[denverappraiser]

My understanding is that HoF gets lab grading on ALL of their diamonds above the tiniest. I don't know if they use GIA exclusively but it's my impression that they do. Call up HoF and ask them about it. While you're on the phone, make sure you understand what an HoF2 is. I've never heard this term but it smells bad to me.

If HoF isn't doing the setting, they can't prevent the jeweler from setting a non-HoF stone in it. The best they can do is void the warranty. The rest is coming from the jeweler, not them. They can certainly refuse to set your stone, and they can even refuse to sell you a mounting to have someone else set it, but that's up to them not HoF. I'm guessing you can find competitors if you look and you don't like their policies.

[davidelevi]

Something is wrong here. If this is an "old" HOF, then it should be graded by a lab. It may have an old(er) report, but it should have one.

Side comment: it looks like the marketing strategy of Hearts on Fire is not working particularly well. Rather than recognising the value of the stone's cut, there seem to be quite a few buyers prepared to pay a significant premium on the settings...

[barry]

Very odd.

Original lab documentation/reports, e.g.; GIA, AGS lab reports are shipped with the completed merchandise. From their advertising HOF diamonds are laser inscribed with the HOF logo and graded by the GIA. You have two options: continue or cancel.

[ats200]

I was thinking the same as you all in terms of the certification. I actually contacted hearts on fire directly to confirm and apparently this is all true and legitimate. I'm still awaiting a second response as to why there is no certificate, I find it odd that at one point they sold it at full price and now that it's "discounted," there is suddenly no certificate.

email response from hearts on fire: "I was able to look into your order. The HOF2 center diamond that you speak of is indeed a true Hearts On Fire diamond, it is just not laser inscribed with a HOF serial number. Therefore, you will not be receiving a AGS document with the diamond, but you will absolutely be receiving a Hearts On Fire Certificate of Authenticity as well as an appraisal on the complete ring from the store directly."

I agree with you David, I think with the widespread availability of information online now, a lot of people are realizing that similar cuts and quality can be had for much less. In my case, I was forced to buy a more expensive diamond to get the setting I wanted.

Edited by ats200, 01 November 2011 - 05:13 PM.

[davidelevi]

Hmmmm.... this still leaves me unconvinced. Considering the cost of an AGS report is somewhere around $100, why does it not exist? What do HoF not want you to know about the diamond? The laser inscription is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with AGS; at most AGS would have had the machinery to make the inscription.

The lack of an independent (i.e. AGS or GIA) opinion on colour, clarity and cut quality is concerning to me. Make sure you have a good return period without penalties, and get the diamond seen by a qualified, independent appraiser quickly.

Edited by davidelevi, 01 November 2011 - 11:33 PM.

[ats200]

I will be sure to take all of these steps. However, because the diamond will return to me already in the setting, is it still possible to be correctly appraised and graded? Is it possible to send the diamond to AGS or GIA?

Also, because I'm so new at this, where can I find independent appraisers locally? Is this something I can just "google" and trust?

[denverappraiser]

Appraisers are well experienced with grading stones in the settings but that adds some serious limitations. We can't weight it, we can't directly measure the angles and the reflections of the mounting can mess with color perceptions for example. For this reason, neither GIA nor AGS will inspect a mounted stone. For your purposes I think an appraisal will work just fine and you don't need to risk possible damage to your mounting by having it removed and reset.

some good places to look for an appraiser are:

www.ags.org
www.najaappraisers.org
www.appraisers.org
www.isa-appraiser.org

These are all societies of appraisers that have lookup indexes for their members. All require at least a minimum level of training to get in. Be aware that the AGS's 'independent certified gemologist appraiser' category is the ONLY one that takes a stab at requiring independence and that one only has 19 members in the whole country. Beyond that, make sure to vet the appraiser in the same way that you would vet any other professional service. Google is a good place to start, it's not the end.

Where are you and I'll try to make a referral if I know someone nearby.

[ats200]

I'm currently in Las Vegas however, I plan to do the proposal in SW Pennsylvania. Either would be fine.

I haven't yet found an appraiser but I'm currently playing phone tag and exchanging emails with several parties regarding this situation (including HOF and the owner of the jewelry store). Hopefully I can get this resolved before it's set but the arrival of the ring is very time sensitive so it's becoming more and more difficult each day. (reason being that I already have a flight booked to PA)

[barry]

We hope you will be able to get this resolved to your satisfaction; keep us posted.

[denverappraiser]

Try this guy in Las Vegas,

http://www.jewelryjudge.net/lackey.htm