31 replies to this topic

[Locke]

davidelevi, on 16 September 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

The issue is whether you are paying a fair price, and in this case you are basically ready to trust the dealer. Incidentally - it matters little, but I doubt that with those crown and pavilion angle what you (or your GF) saw would be called "H&A".

My girlfriend saw it alone. She told him that we were going to see other stones this Saturday. He said "look at this", and then on some kind of machine I think, he said "look at the hearts, and be sure to notice if the stones they show you tomorrow also have this".


I have no idea if this is worth anything, but when I entered this diamond's info in the "Holloway Cut Adviser" [url][url][url]http://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca[/url][/url][/url] it seems to suggest the cut is "good to fair". No idea if I should be worried about this... But to my girlfriend's eyes, it looked beautiful. (She says it's the best large stone she's seen yet, and we've been to many stores)

By email, he just said to me: "just showed the stone to your girlfriend and put the stone in Hearts & Arrow viewer to show her the ultimate symmetry and proportion of this stone . It is a Hearts& Arrow stone , one step above of Ideal Cut ."

Edited by Locke, 16 September 2011 - 12:49 PM.

[denverappraiser]

Locke, on 16 September 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Since this is not an investment, my goals are (1) Satisfy my girl's desire for a 3c stone (2) have the stone look nice to her; and (3) stay in my budget; (4) not get a fake/fragile/problematic diamond.

You've accomplished ALL of your objectives. H&A is not, and never was, one of your criteria. Neither is scoring well on the HCA. Ignore them.

Locke, on 16 September 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

She says it's the best large stone she's seen yet, and we've been to many stores)

That sounds like success to me. Pay your money and be happy.

[davidelevi]

Together.

[Locke]

Update: So my girlfriend and I saw the other jeweler's stone this Saturday ( 3.02 carat, H colour, SI2, ideal cut. EGL graded, $25,000). My girlfriend didn't like it, and even with my "terrible" eyesight I could see large "problems" (inclusions? feathers?) in the stone. I wouldn't buy this stone even at a deep discount.

As to the 3carat/$30,000 stone whose certificate I posted earlier: I cannot in good conscience buy this (any) stone without a GIA certificate. GemScan might be accurate, or it might be off by many levels. I emailed the guy about it, and he was very reticent to have it regraded even if I paid for everything. He was concerned about sending the stone out of country.

Then I told him I would buy the stone even if GIA called it an L/SI1, since my girlfriend finds it beautiful anyway. This seems to have reduced his reluctance.
He said he would call his supplier and ask permission to ship it from Canada to the USA to have it graded.

Hopefully my quest will soon be over! Just hope the stone doesn't come back M / SI2 / fair cut. (which he says is impossible, and I believe him since my very picky girlfriend has good eyes)

[Locke]

Fabulous. The supplier accepted to have GIA re-grade it for me, and the jeweler sent the stone to the USA. I'm putting a 10% deposit tomorrow, in the serious expectation that all will be well and the deal will close.

Thanks again to everyone who gave me great advice on this site! I hope the archived discussion helps others in the future.

Edited by Locke, 19 September 2011 - 01:39 PM.

[LaurieH]

Good luck! Please do come back once the stone's been graded and returned and let us know how it came out and if you wound up actually taking it. Cheers!

[davidelevi]

And if you DO take it, please post a photo!!!

Best of luck (more than anything, best of speed) with GIA!

[Locke]

Just got the certificate.

On this site's "diamond finder", I see 3 diamonds rated GIA 3cts / M / SI1 / Very good cut diamonds that are selling for about $17,000 (but my stone's polish and symmetry are both excellent). My jeweler wants $30,000 for the stone.


My girl saw the stone and loves it. Any advice? Is his price way out of line? Or am I missing something? What about this "cavity"???

For what it's worth, my jeweler says "the stone is better than SI1 and the color is L at the lowest not M".

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Edited by Locke, 27 September 2011 - 01:56 PM.

[Locke]

One funny thing I noticed: GemScan listed the stone as "v small cullet" and "very good symmetry", but GIA was more generous, listing it as "no cullet", and "excellent" symmetry.

GIA also said it's a little bigger 9.14 x 9.24 x 5.79 GemScan vs 9.15 x 9.24 x 5.80 GIA

The plot seems very very clean. If this stone is an "almost L" and "almost VS2", maybe it's worth almost $30,000?

[davidelevi]

1/100 mm is well within the margin of error due to instrument calibration.

In terms of price, M is M, and not L (or K), and SI1 is SI1, not VS2 - and however "close to", the way in which the grade falls will determine (perhaps unfairly) the price at which the stone will sell. Which is closer to $20k than $30k... no matter what the jeweller may say, the market (or the savvy buyer) is going to listen to GIA and not to him.

The cavity on the girdle may be OK, if you don't intend setting it in a bezel, but make sure the setter knows about it.

I wouldn't buy it - and certainly not at $30k, but then my criteria for choosing stones are different from yours.

[Locke]

davidelevi, on 27 September 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

Which is closer to $20k than $30k... no matter what the jeweller may say, the market (or the savvy buyer) is going to listen to GIA and not to him. ... The cavity on the girdle may be OK, if you don't intend setting it in a bezel, but make sure the setter knows about it.I wouldn't buy it - and certainly not at $30k, but then my criteria for choosing stones are different from yours.

- A problem is that since many 3cts Si1 are not eye clean, but this one is very eye-clean, I would be stuck shopping for VS2 stones if I shop on-line. Which right away raises the price back to around $30,000. So I'm wondering how much money I could realistically save by giving up this stone are starting over.

- cavity: the stone will be set in a 6 prong solitaire. Is that a problem? What should the setter do about the cavity? Could it crack in 10 years?

- criteria: I just want a stone that my girlfriend likes at a fair price. She really loved this stone, so the question that remains to me is, Can I find a stone just as nice for a much better price?

Perhaps he or his supplier will be willing to budge on the price...


At least now people on this board know how a GemScan certificate compares to a GIA one...

Edited by Locke, 27 September 2011 - 04:49 PM.

[davidelevi]

Locke, on 27 September 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

- A problem is that since many 3cts Si1 are not eye clean, but this one is very eye-clean, I would be stuck shopping for VS2 stones if I shop on-line. Which right away raises the price back to around $30,000. So I'm wondering how much money I could realistically save by giving up this stone are starting over.

Put it this way: if you (and your girlfriend) are OK with an M colour stone, there are VS2 L/M 3 carat GIA Excellent cut stones for $22-25k. Or even J or K if you are not super-strict with "3 carat net". Would you like them as much? My guess is yes, but I haven't seen one or the others.

Here is a list with about 10 - for example. I am sure that more can be found: http://www.briangavi...=&submit=Search

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- cavity: the stone will be set in a 6 prong solitaire. Is that a problem? What should the setter do about the cavity? Could it crack in 10 years?

Depending on where the cavity is positioned and the setting design, the best solution may be that of "covering it over" with a prong or leaving it in a spot where it's protected by the shank from getting hit. 4 or 6 prongs (or even a bezel) are not an issue with a skilled setter; just make sure that he/she is aware (though a good setter will inspect the stone first!). Could it crack? Yes, of course it could, given the right bang in the right place with the right force, but then so could any diamond. You can just minimise the risk and buy insurance for the rest.

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- criteria: I just want a stone that my girlfriend likes at a fair price. She really loved this stone, so the question that remains to me is, Can I find a stone just as nice for a much better price?

I believe so. This stone only fits half of your criteria - admittedly the most important one - but I also think you can do better while still getting something that your girlfriend will like.

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Perhaps he or his supplier will be willing to budge on the price...

Unlikely to the extent of making this "fairly priced" based on online available stones (i.e. price somewhere South of $20k). But trying does not hurt.

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At least now people on this board know how a GemScan certificate compares to a GIA one...

Yes, but... the biggest problem with unreliable labs is not that they are soft with grading. Is that they are unreliable. Beware of making the equation GIA = GemScan + 2 grades on colour. This one ended up like this; the next one could be spot on for colour, but 2 grades off on clarity. Or...