28 replies to this topic

[BigPapi]

Has anyone ever purchased a clarity enhanced diamond? What are the pros and cons? What should one look for if purchasing a Clarity Enhanced Diamond.

[denverappraiser]

Pro:
They're usually better looking than they were before they were filled. Often by quite a bit.

Cons:
They require a certain amount of special care.

There is no standardized grading system for them and grading abuse is rampant. You CAN NOT use the clarity grading phrases like SI2, VS1, etc to compare them against untreated stones with the same descriptor and it's remarkably difficult to even use the claimed clarity grades to compare against other clarity enhanced stones, especially if they're from a different source. You can't even rely on the color grades because the major labs won't grade them at all and you're left to the dealer supplied grades and second tier labs of questionable repute. The result is a disaster in terms of useable shopping information.

The market is less competitive than for untreated stones so commissions and markups to dealers tend to be higher.

They're pretty much unsaleable on the secondary market. (dealers normally won't take them back, even at a steep discount)

The stones the manufacturers choose to treat are often dogs for other reasons, like cutting, and it's wickedly difficult to get this information out of the dealers. Often they don't know and often they're using bogus labs to hide behind but the effect is the same. You can't get complete shopping information.

Edited by denverappraiser, 09 August 2011 - 11:52 AM.

[BigPapi]

denverappraiser, on 09 August 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

Pro:
They're usually better looking than they were before they were filled. Often by quite a bit.

Cons:
They require a certain amount of special care.

There is no standardized grading system for them and grading abuse is rampant. You CAN NOT use the clarity grading phrases like SI2, VS1, etc to compare them against untreated stones with the same descriptor and it's remarkably difficult to even use the claimed clarity grades to compare against other clarity enhanced stones, especially if they're from a different source. You can't even rely on the color grades because the major labs won't grade them at all and you're left to the dealer supplied grades and second tier labs of questionable repute. The result is a disaster in terms of useable shopping information.

The market is less competitive than for untreated stones so commissions and markups to dealers tend to be higher.

They're pretty much unsaleable on the secondary market. (dealers normally won't take them back, even at a steep discount)

The stones the manufacturers choose to treat are often dogs for other reasons, like cutting, and it's wickedly difficult to get this information out of the dealers. Often they don't know and often they're using bogus labs to hid behind but the effect is the same. You can't get complete shopping information.

Thanks for your opinion. I am new to this site, and discovered quickly, you appear to know more than most on tis site.

I saw a dealer out of Los Angeles, called Beverly Diamonds; www.beverlydiamonds.com
has AAA rating from the Better Business Bureau, and I'm not looking for resale. I've bee told lazer enhanced is the best. Is that true? So would you absolutely not buy an enhanced diamond?

I don't know a lot about diamonds, but I often wonder how much of the value is simply what the consumer likes? I read a post from a dealer on this site; he said he sold a diamond that he thought looked like frozen spit, but the consumer loved it and he sold it cheaply because it was a so - so diamond. Another customer saw a 3.5 ct Marquis that was a good diamond, but over priced and the customer thought he was getting a great value.
This is so confusing.

[denverappraiser]

ALL of the value is based on what consumers like. Beyond certain industrial applications, diamonds are completely unnecessary. There is nothing fundamentally better about 'white' stones, transparent stones, big stones or anything else. Buy what you like. Put another way, if you don't like it, it's not a bargain at any price.

I assume you mean BBB A+, their top grade. That's a good sign but it doesn't really mean all that much (I'm a BBB-A+ by the way). It means they resolve all complaints, they pay their dues and they've been around for a while. All good things to be sure but that says nothing at all about whether they have what you want or whether they charge reasonable prices for it. A BAD BBB rating is important because it's evidence of a problem but a good rating is mostly a wash. There's a discussion in the FAQ's of this site about how to pick and evaluate a dealer, as opposed to how to evaluate a stone. You might benefit by digging it up and reading it.

My above discussion is about glass filling. Laser drilling is a different issue entirely. The biggie is that the major labs WILL grade drilled stones and just put a disclaimer about it in the comments section. You can (and should) buy GIA graded stones. They have a similar resale problem but it does drive down the prices initially as well. Whether or not it's worth the discount depends on your own taste, the details of the stone and, of course, the price.

For whatever it's worth, I've never heard of this dealer. I'm not going to take the time to look into them but maybe someone else here will based on your other thread.

Edited by denverappraiser, 09 August 2011 - 09:07 AM.

[Grace7]

Hey BigPapi

I own a clarity enhanced diamond that is feather filled and the pros are that you can save up to half and sometimes even more or just get a much larger diamond + it adds more brilliance to the diamond. the cons are that you need to remember to telly your jeweler that the diamond is enhanced if you are sending it for cleaning or anything because the treatment can come out. I got my ring at diamondtraces.com and the treatment actually did come out because i gave it to my jewellery and forgot to tell him but it came with a lifetime warranty so i just send it back to be enhanced again for free.
But the fact that the enhancement can be reversed is also good and bad because it wont just come off for no reason.. you need to put it in acid or extreme heat for it to come off. but let just say that you want you diamond to go back to 100% natural non treated that can also be an option if you take the treatment out.

Laser drilling is different.. the inclusion comes out and is not there but in some of them you really see the drilling trails.

[LaurieH]

The thing with fracture filling as the "clarity enhancement) is that it can fall out (as stated above), and it's not actually difficult for that to happen (sometimes the composite filling is basically just glass), and if it does, you're prone to having the feather it was sealing crack. It's really just up to you if that's the kind of risk you want to take, considering that people are so much harder on their jewelry than they realize, most especially rings.

[denverappraiser]

LaurieH, on 09 August 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

The thing with fracture filling as the "clarity enhancement) is that it can fall out (as stated above), and it's not actually difficult for that to happen (sometimes the composite filling is basically just glass), and if it does, you're prone to having the feather it was sealing crack. It's really just up to you if that's the kind of risk you want to take, considering that people are so much harder on their jewelry than they realize, most especially rings.

Laurie,

Actually, I disagree with you. Sometimes filled stones have durability problems, but they were present before the filling was added. 'Clarity enhancing' a stone doesn't make things worse any more than it makes them better. It's like putting a paint job on an old car. It may look better, and that may be what you want, but it's still an old car, and if it was a clunker before it's still going to be a clunker when you're done.

[LaurieH]

I'm not saying it makes it worse--I'm saying that if you lose that filler where there was already a feather, that it makes that spot more prone. otherwise, why would they have filled it if it weren't prone to begin with? That was more my point.

[Grace7]

Well I was very much willing to take that 'risk' and to pay half the price.. didnt really bother me and like I said I got it from a place that gives you a lifetime warranty. If anyone is looking to get a clarity enhanced diamond I would recommend to get it prom a place that gives an enhancement warranty.

[denverappraiser]

Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well I was very much willing to take that 'risk' and to pay half the price.. didnt really bother me and like I said I got it from a place that gives you a lifetime warranty. If anyone is looking to get a clarity enhanced diamond I would recommend to get it prom a place that gives an enhancement warranty.

I certainly agree about the warranty and about choosing your dealer first and the stone second rather than the opposite. This advice applies to untreated stones as well by the way, but it's even more true with CE stones. I'm curious about the first part of your statement. Half the price of WHAT? The price of a similar CE diamond available elsewhere? Absolutely. Shop with the same enthusiasm and skills you would apply to any other product you buy. If you want a CE diamond, shop it against other dealers selling CE diamonds as well as other stones available from the same store and pick the one that is the best for your money. No problem. Half the price of similar untreated natural diamonds available elsewhere? That's a much more problematic statement. 'Similar' means very different things to different people and grading scales are a huge problem in this industy. CE-SI1/G is ABSOLUTELY NOT directly comparable to GIA-SI1/G, and often it's not even close. Tiny details make a big difference in the diamond business and this one isn't tiny. That's a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. There's nothing wrong with buying I2's or K colors. NOTHING. There's also nothing wrong with gussying them up to make them look sort of like SI1's. The problem comes when you add a 'certificate' that calls them SI1*/G and then add a dealer who points out that they're cheaper than untreated natural SI1/G's. Indeed they are, but that's an enormous misdirection. It's a disservice to the customer and it's an embarassment to the industry. I've not seen your stone and I don't know your dealer but I HAVE seen this exact situation repeatedly and it's the #1 issue for shoppers of Clarity Enhanced diamonds (which, lest we forget, is the subject of this thread). It's not a reason to avoid CE stones but it IS a reason to be cautious about the dealers of them and it IS a reason to hold their feet to the fire to make sure that they're one of the good guys. Not all are.

[BigPapi]

Grace7, on 09 August 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

Hey BigPapi

I own a clarity enhanced diamond that is feather filled and the pros are that you can save up to half and sometimes even more or just get a much larger diamond + it adds more brilliance to the diamond. the cons are that you need to remember to telly your jeweler that the diamond is enhanced if you are sending it for cleaning or anything because the treatment can come out. I got my ring at diamondtraces.com and the treatment actually did come out because i gave it to my jewellery and forgot to tell him but it came with a lifetime warranty so i just send it back to be enhanced again for free.
But the fact that the enhancement can be reversed is also good and bad because it wont just come off for no reason.. you need to put it in acid or extreme heat for it to come off. but let just say that you want you diamond to go back to 100% natural non treated that can also be an option if you take the treatment out.

Laser drilling is different.. the inclusion comes out and is not there but in some of them you really see the drilling trails.

Grace7

Thanks for the feedback. I'm exploring all options. Would you purchase another clarity enhanced diamond?

[BigPapi]

denverappraiser, on 10 August 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well I was very much willing to take that 'risk' and to pay half the price.. didnt really bother me and like I said I got it from a place that gives you a lifetime warranty. If anyone is looking to get a clarity enhanced diamond I would recommend to get it prom a place that gives an enhancement warranty.

I certainly agree about the warranty and about choosing your dealer first and the stone second rather than the opposite. This advice applies to untreated stones as well by the way, but it's even more true with CE stones. I'm curious about the first part of your statement. Half the price of WHAT? The price of a similar CE diamond available elsewhere? Absolutely. Shop with the same enthusiasm and skills you would apply to any other product you buy. If you want a CE diamond, shop it against other dealers selling CE diamonds as well as other stones available from the same store and pick the one that is the best for your money. No problem. Half the price of similar untreated natural diamonds available elsewhere? That's a much more problematic statement. 'Similar' means very different things to different people and grading scales are a huge problem in this industy. CE-SI1/G is ABSOLUTELY NOT directly comparable to GIA-SI1/G, and often it's not even close. Tiny details make a big difference in the diamond business and this one isn't tiny. That's a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. There's nothing wrong with buying I2's or K colors. NOTHING. There's also nothing wrong with gussying them up to make them look sort of like SI1's. The problem comes when you add a 'certificate' that calls them SI1*/G and then add a dealer who points out that they're cheaper than untreated natural SI1/G's. Indeed they are, but that's an enormous misdirection. It's a disservice to the customer and it's an embarassment to the industry. I've not seen your stone and I don't know your dealer but I HAVE seen this exact situation repeatedly and it's the #1 issue for shoppers of Clarity Enhanced diamonds (which, lest we forget, is the subject of this thread). It's not a reason to avoid CE stones but it IS a reason to be cautious about the dealers of them and it IS a reason to hold their feet to the fire to make sure that they're one of the good guys. Not all are.

Good points. I agree finding the right dealer is critical regardless of going natural or CE. At the end of the day you wnt someone to stand behind their product and ofer quality service.

[Grace7]

BigPapi- the fact that the enhancement can come out and wouldnt stop me from getting another clarity enhanced. in fact im helping my cousin that recently got engaged to pick her ring from the same place at daimondtraces.
I told her all about clarity enhanced diamonds and also about what happened to mine and she still prefers to get them and get what she wants then compromise for less.

Would you get another clarity enhanced diamond or recommend then to anyone?

[davidelevi]

LaurieH, on 10 August 2011 - 06:00 AM, said:

I'm not saying it makes it worse--I'm saying that if you lose that filler where there was already a feather, that it makes that spot more prone.

Why would it? The "danger to integrity" issue was there or was not there to start with. Filling with a compound - basically lead crystal - that is much less hard or resistant to temperature than diamond does not make the stone "safer" (it's not adhesive, and anyway the bonding surface is tiny), nor does it make it less stable.

Quote

otherwise, why would they have filled it if it weren't prone to begin with? That was more my point.

Again, the reason why they filled it has zippo to do with stability; it has all to do with appearances - which it fixes sometimes satisfactorily and sometimes less. The underlying fragility, if any, remains there and untreated.

[BigPapi]

Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

BigPapi- the fact that the enhancement can come out and wouldnt stop me from getting another clarity enhanced. in fact im helping my cousin that recently got engaged to pick her ring from the same place at daimondtraces.
I told her all about clarity enhanced diamonds and also about what happened to mine and she still prefers to get them and get what she wants then compromise for less.

Would you get another clarity enhanced diamond or recommend then to anyone?

Grace 7

Thanks for the feed back. I don't have a Clarity enhanved or any ring at the moment. I'm looking and getting more confused by the day. Maybe I should just by a boat. Something I know more about.

[davidelevi]

Ah, but you cannot wear it on your finger. And laser drilling boats is definitely not recommended.

[BigPapi]

TRUE! That's funny. I'm trying to keep me sense of humor about this and not get too stressful.

[davidelevi]

Don't worry overmuch. Look at it this way: there are tens of thousands of people getting engaged every year in the US alone; only a few hundreds bother researching diamonds even to the extent you are doing, the majority either overspend dramatically or end up with frankly so-so stones (or both!).

We are here to help, and part of it is getting you through the confusion - which is perfectly normal - in the shortest possible time.

[Nige]

I am currently in search of an engagement ring... I found one I like like the design etc but the diamond is CE.

So do I just try to negotiate buying the ring only or try to get a GIA certified stone set in it?

This is the state of play as of the moment.

The "seller" / franchise? Shiree Odiz, "Tri Tension" design.
The stone is listed as 0.75 c Colour G SI1 / SI2
Lab / CAertification DGR
No serial number on diamond.

Now they will have it laser cut with a serial number and just about anything else I want which is good customer service. Bt they have openly said I can get the grading checked by IGLor it's DGR which is their own in house grading.

I guess a large part of me is saying run away! Run away now dear boy. So would a CE rock really be throwing away good money ;-)
This is one of those give me a cuddle moments as I need to be reassured.

The learning process has been exceedingly interesting the whole 4c's has been quite enjoyable to learn.
Now I just need to sit on my hands for a little bit.

Cheers

Nige

[BigPapi]

Read this entire string
Grace7 swears by his CE ring purchased for his wife
the more Iearn, the more I realize unless you are an investor, diamonds are a matter or personal taste. Just my opinion
I read a thread where a zdeer said he had a diamond that looked like frozen but had a customer who thought it was the best one he ever saw; purchased it at a deep discount. He sold another higher quality Marquis ER that was over priced becaused the guy though the same; the best he'd seen.
Davidlevi told me buying what I like is a good strategy; buying what she likes is a better strategy. See my thread " Is this Ring worth the money" fro
august 10th I think