18 replies to this topic

[chrislogen]

Hi

I found a ring that I like to buy online, its clarity enhanced but only the center stone.
Now i did some researching online about clarity enhanced but I would like to know if anyone can share with me some personal experience.
Also if anyone know diamondtraces.com i found and has some reviews about them that would be nice.


This is the ring- let me know what you think

[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/18k-Gold-Ring-w-Accents-Natural-2-32ct-Princess-F-VS2-/320675566859?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_with_Accents&hash=item4aa9c0d50b"]My ring [/url]

Thanks ppl

[LaurieH]

 chrislogen, on 04 August 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

Hi

I found a ring that I like to buy online, its clarity enhanced but only the center stone.
Now i did some researching online about clarity enhanced but I would like to know if anyone can share with me some personal experience.
Also if anyone know diamondtraces.com i found and has some reviews about them that would be nice.


This is the ring- let me know what you think

My ring

Thanks ppl

To say "I'm buying a diamond ring and ONLY the center stone has been modified" is kinda like saying "I'm buying a completely restored vintage Cadillac, and only the engine is from a Civic". Really? You're only accepting less from the most important part of the ring! Clarity enhanced means that someone took a natural diamond that was not so fab, and treated it with heat or pressure, fracture filling, laser drill holes, etc to make it look better. They don't even bother trying to have it graded--you are taking the word of THEIR expert and the only thing they're giving you is a "certificate of authenticity". Guess what: the electroplated "collector" coins you buy from the Franklin Mint come with one of those, too. Worth the paper it's printed on. And I'll betcha a nickel (not even the $5, limited time offer, only 5 per household, *please* nickels) that that is NOT the picture of "your" ring, but a stock image of a ring that they carry in that style and roughly that size. And as far as putting a value on it--if it was really WORTH 12K, for darn sure, they aren't going to sell it for $5k. Why would they? Because you're best buds and they're doing you a favor? Nope. They're in business to make money, and if it's even worth what they're asking, I'd be surprised.

I'd advise you to go smaller and go better. Don't get something treated and that comes without any kind of REAL certification. Even for a limited budget, You can do much better than this center stone, and you can easily find a similar setting that isn't too terribly pricey, put it together and have a MUCH nicer, much more true-to-value ring.

[davidelevi]

Laurie has said it all. Ditch this ad, ditch this seller and move on. Honestly.

[Grace7]

Hi Cris,

I actually purchased an engagement ring from this exact place that i heard of from a friend and I don't think there is anything wrong with your decision to go for clarity enhanced diamonds, obviously since I decided to go for one.
I saw the image and info of the ring you found and i think it has a really good color and that's very important.
About the clarity its a VS2 witch means that before the enhancement it was probably a SI2 or SI1 witch is not bad as it is. Also it said on the item link that the treatment was the feather filling so dont be confused.. none drilled your diamond.. that's something else.. the inclusion in the diamond was simply filled with a clear material that makes it less visible. Here is a link for for clarity enhanced info and explanations about the treatment - [url="http://reviews.ebay.com/Natural-Enhanced-Diamonds_W0QQugidZ10000000004075644"]My link[/url]

Laurie has a point bout the photo but I asked them to take a photo of the item itself close up and on a hand and they emaild it to me the same day.
Also good point about the appraisal of the ring and the certificate but they give you an option to get a 3rd party appraisal from AGI- like I did. In this price of a ring I think they do it for free.
About the Cadillac example.. not accurate of your case since its the same "engage front the same company" just fixed up. Plus not everyone can afford a restored vintage Cadillac so if they really want one anyhow i think its ok if they get some parts that are really the same but will cost them less then half the price.

I got my wife a clarity enhance and I wouldn't change my decision even if I had a chance and actually I had one because they give you about 30 days to give it back but she was so happy and impressed that i got the size she wanted and really nice setting with pave and that why should I get her something that is not even an almost since Im not a millionaire yet? My wife know its been clarity enhanced and she has no problem with it because she really wanted that fancy setting and that big round diamond. I dont think her friends pulled out a jeweler loop when they looked at it.. but Im very sure that I pulled out a lot less then what i could have if it wasnt clarity enhanced. rough estimate, I save about half..
So bigger stone, happier wife.


I know this could be hard with all this different point of views but try to read as much as you can and also you can call a few places that sale clarity enhance ask to speak with a gemologist and then just ask them all the same questions.

I would recommend diamondtraces.com because they are a family business that goes back all the way to the diamond main. So basically they have the smallest possible amount of middle ppl involved. Sales are made direct with the owners of the store so you save the extra money for the sales rep commotion. Good customer service, very fast and very helpful with educational information. I emaild then all of my questions and they helped a lot.




Good luck

Edited by Grace7, 08 August 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[denverappraiser]

 davidelevi, on 04 August 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

Laurie has said it all. Ditch this ad, ditch this seller and move on. Honestly.

Grace,

You're so enthusiastic about this seller in all of your posts I thought I would take a look at them and, frankly, I agree with Davide here. The ad I found was so full of crap that I just can't imagine they're a reasonable source. Here's the item description of the one I found.

Item's Description

As a wholesale diamond company we give you the chance to purchase this diamond for less than 70% than other retail jewelry stores. This diamond was graded and appraised by our GIA Graduated Gemologist as 100% Natural Earth Mined Diamond.

Where to begin deconstructing this?

They're selling things one at a time to the public. That's a retailer. That's the DEFINITION of a retailer. Whether or not they sell to other dealers for resale is absolutely beside the point. It's also unlikely by the way. This is a retail ad for retail sales to the retail public. Calling themselves a wholesale diamond company is pure deception. Strike 1.

70% less than other jewelers? Maybe. Maybe not. That depends on the other jeweler doesn't it? Not all jewelers sell the same things and not all charge the same prices. This is a gross generalization. They set their own prices, those other jewelers set theirs. If you want to know what those other guys charge for similar things, ask THEM, not some ebay competitor. It's nonsense but I'll let it slide and just call it puffery.

"Graded and appraised by our GIA Graduated Gemologist." This means that the grading is based 100% on the word of the seller. Since GIA doesn't even teach grading of clarity enhanced stones as part of their coursework, nor do they supply a grading scale for them, it seems totally irrelevant that they're GIA graduates. The key piece left is that it's THEIR guy doing the grading. Strike 2.

100% Natural Earth Mined Diamond. Really? It's glass filled by their own statement. That means that it's a diamond that's been impregnated with glass to make it look better. That ain't 100% diamond, sorry.
Strike 3.

Earth mined? Probably true but so what? Where else do they mine diamonds?

I generaly cut dealers quite a bit of slack on the forum but that's three strikes in 2 sentences! It's the entirity of the item description for heavens sake. I didn't even get into their terms and conditions or grading standards (these are the typical problem areas). Somehow I doubt I'll be impressed but maybe I just saw a bad ad from them. I didn't actually spend much time looking into them. I'm glad to hear you're so happy with your purchase.

Edited by denverappraiser, 09 August 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[Grace7]

 denverappraiser, on 09 August 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

 davidelevi, on 04 August 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

Laurie has said it all. Ditch this ad, ditch this seller and move on. Honestly.

Grace,

You're so enthusiastic about this seller in all of your posts I thought I would take a look at them and, frankly, I agree with Davide here. The ad I found was so full of crap that I just can't imagine they're a reasonable source. Here's the item description of the one I found.

Item's Description

As a wholesale diamond company we give you the chance to purchase this diamond for less than 70% than other retail jewelry stores. This diamond was graded and appraised by our GIA Graduated Gemologist as 100% Natural Earth Mined Diamond.

Where to begin deconstructing this?

They're selling things one at a time to the public. That's a retailer. That's the DEFINITION of a retailer. Whether or not they sell to other dealers for resale is absolutely beside the point. It's also unlikely by the way. This is a retail ad for retail sales to the retail public. Calling themselves a wholesale diamond company is pure deception. Strike 1.

70% less than other jewelers? Maybe. Maybe not. That depends on the other jeweler doesn't it? Not all jewelers sell the same things and not all charge the same prices. This is a gross generalization. They set their own prices, those other jewelers set theirs. If you want to know what those other guys charge for similar things, ask THEM, not some ebay competitor. It's nonsense but I'll let it slide and just call it puffery.

"Graded and appraised by our GIA Graduated Gemologist." This means that the grading is based 100% on the word of the seller. Since GIA doesn't even teach grading of clarity enhanced stones as part of their coursework, nor do they supply a grading scale for them, it seems totally irrelevant that they're GIA graduates. The key piece left is that it's THEIR guy doing the grading. Strike 2.

100% Natural Earth Mined Diamond. Really? It's glass filled by their own statement. That means that it's a diamond that's been impregnated with glass to make it look better. That ain't 100% diamond, sorry.
Strike 3.

Earth mined? Probably true but so what? Where else do they mine diamonds?

I generaly cut dealers quite a bit of slack on the forum but that's three strikes in 2 sentences! It's the entirity of the item description for heavens sake. I didn't even get into their terms and conditions or grading standards (these are the typical problem areas). Somehow I doubt I'll be impressed but maybe I just saw a bad ad from them. I didn't actually spend much time looking into them. I'm glad to hear you're so happy with your purchase.

1- They use to only do wholesale but they started also doing retail a few years a go.. now they do retail so they have a site just for that. About the price let the ppl doing the shopping decide for themselves.
2- You can get the diamonds to be graded from a 3rd party grading system.. I did so and the grader at diamondtraces actually graded my diamond to be less in clarity then the GIA did. I recommend the 3rd party grading if it means the world to you.
3- yes real diamond just been treated with this tiny filling that is so small that i dont really mind its there
yes earth made cuse there are also synthetic ones out there and ppl mistake them for lab made diamonds. not the same thing at all..

 denverappraiser, on 09 August 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

 davidelevi, on 04 August 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

Laurie has said it all. Ditch this ad, ditch this seller and move on. Honestly.

I didn't actually spend much time looking into them. I'm glad to hear you're so happy with your purchase.

Maybe you should and Im happy your happy for me.

thank you

[denverappraiser]

 Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

Maybe you should [img]

Nah. I"m not a customer and I won't become one. That's for shoppers to do. I'm happy if I can teach people the concept that they should be researching the dealer, not just the diamond, and provide a few clues about what sorts of things to look for to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[denverappraiser]

 Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

1- They use to only do wholesale but they started also doing retail a few years a go.. now they do retail so they have a site just for that. About the price let the ppl doing the shopping decide for themselves.
2- You can get the diamonds to be graded from a 3rd party grading system.. I did so and the grader at diamondtraces actually graded my diamond to be less in clarity then the GIA did

3- yes real diamond just been treated with this tiny filling that is so small that i dont really mind its there
yes earth made cuse there are also synthetic ones out there and ppl mistake them for lab made diamonds. not the same thing at all..

If they're selling directly to the public, they're a retailer. That's the definition of a retailer. What they used to do is irrelevant. I've got no problem with retailers by the way, it's the CLAIM that they're a wholesaler when they are actively doing the opposite in the same sentence where I have a problem.

The GIA grading system does NOT apply to clarity enhanced stones any more than it applies to bicycles. The problem is that not all inclusions fill equally well and they do not have a 'filled' feather clarity characteristic no matter how well it took. Most graders (including me) use a system where it 'looks' sort of like an SI1 or whatever. That's ok for what it is, but it's simply not the GIA grading system. They CANNOT grade less than the clarity than the GIA because GIA will not grade CE stones nor do they teach their students how to do it as part of their diamond grading program. The methodology is not consistent from one grader to the next.

I agree, 3rd party grading by a grader chosen by the buyer is where it's at if you want to maximum confidence although this comes at a cost. These stones, by their own statement, are graded in-house. The offer of a 'certificate' from a lab chosen by the seller is NOT 3rd party grading. That's a contractor for the seller. Trust the sellers grading or not as you wish, but if you want 3rd party verification (and if there's significant money involved you SHOULD), a report ordered and supplied by the seller and issued by an unknown lab working for them is simply not sufficient.

99.9% diamond and 100% diamond are not the same thing. That wouldn't be a big deal but THEY are the ones who chose to call them this and most of their competition actually *IS* 100% diamond. They're making a factual statement here and that statement is flatly false.

Edited by denverappraiser, 10 August 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[Grace7]

Yes ok.. still good for me

[Grace7]

any many many more ppl who dont have such huge pocket for the ring they want.
I understand why someone who dont deal with clarity enhanced diamonds would have negative things to say.. half off the price is a lot.

But dont worry I got my ring there and a few other of my friends that I personally send there and all of us got some pretty good diamond education and clarity enhance education. Pluss I did some pretty good research myself.
Nobody is trying to devise anyone here and every customer that gets them knows exactly what he is buying.

[denverappraiser]

 Grace7, on 10 August 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

any many many more ppl who dont have such huge pocket for the ring they want.
I understand why someone who dont deal with clarity enhanced diamonds would have negative things to say.. half off the price is a lot.

I'm actually the regular here who is most supportive of the whole CE industry so it's curious that I'm the one who seems to be in opposition to you. I have no problem with them. That said .... Half off of the price for what? That's language that comes from exactly the dealers who ARE trying to deceive someone. I don't know your guys and as far as I know I've never seen anything they've sold but FAR less than everyone who buys a CE diamond knows exactly what they're getting. In fact, most don't.

[davidelevi]

Just to echo Neil - the issue is half the price of what?

It's several hundred times the price of a CZ, which will look at least as nice. Or if you are concerned with "I don't want a synthetic", it's way more than what a natural, untreated white sapphire (or topaz, or zircon) would cost.

The comparison with an untreated diamond is neither more nor less relevant than the ones above; they all "live" in different markets.

[chrislogen]

Grace thanks the link and for shearing with me

LaurieH- Thanks for commenting...You are intimidated for your own opinion but I dont appreciate your attempt to make me feel like im doing something wrong by looking for an alternative that coast we much less then what it should've. I think that the bottom line is how you feel about your ring and not about if its socially acceptable to buy a clarity enhanced diamond.. and i feel great about mine. My husband didnt give me the biggest budget (im sure one day we will be able to) but I used it in the best way in my opinion.

Denverappraiser- Thanks for pointing out these important point out I asked around more and got good response about this place.
I found out they have a location in nyc and used that chance to actually see my ring in person.I went there yesterday and they were really patient with me and explained everything about clarity enhanced. I saw my ring (the one i linked) and it looks exactly like i imagined and even better and very eye clean so im just waiting for it to be resized and Ill have it next week together with the AGI certificate I cant wait!
i live in NJ and use that trip opportunity to visit more stores in the diamond industry that do sale clarity enhance and didnt find anything that came close to my choice and the price I payed.

Really satisfied with them and defiantly recommend them to anyone.
Ill upload photos when I get herrr

[LaurieH]

Funny, I don't remember being the only one to question this particular ring, but I'm the only one being called out as having been critical. Interesting. I do always wonder, though, why sometimes people come to ask for advice and then ignore it completely, but it's no skin off my teeth. You're right--what matters is what you think of your ring and if you think you got a deal. What we think doesn't matter--we're not wearing it and it didn't come out of our pocketbook. I hope you're as happy with your ring down the road as you are now.

[chrislogen]

I didnt ignore denverapprisers advise at all, i actually used it.
Just dont appreciate your tone and your atempt to put me down for getting a treated diamond.. just not nice of you. whatever its fine..
I did get a deal and im very happy thanks
and again thank you grace and denver guy

[LaurieH]

I wasn't putting you down at all--it was not said that way at all, but read whatever you want. You're the first person to ever say that they saw my straight-talk as put downs. I was being critical of that vendor, not you.

[davidelevi]

Don't feed the trolls.

[davidelevi]

I can't say that I agree with you. There aren't "millions" of jewellery stores online, though there are certainly thousands. The vast majority aren't fakes (whatever that means) or sell fakes.

As to your recommendation - which is out of topic though it seems a response to the spambot above it - is worth to anyone only as much as your reputation and the hard facts you can provide. I'll let others decide for themselves if a generic "first post" testimonial and endorsement has any value.

[LaurieH]

Those posts were both from the same exact (i mean *exact* IP address!). They're now deleted--total fakes.