12 replies to this topic

[lh777]

Hi, I'm looking to buy an engagement ring, and I've tried to study all the good info here on how to pick, and I just want to make sure I understand all of this. I know my fiance likes the Princess cut with as much bling as possible, so I think I'm looking for the most brilliant Princess cut, .75 - 1.0 ct, G color, VS1 clarity.

I want to make sure I understand the issue around premium cuts; for instance is a Leo or a Solasfera necessarily more brilliant than a ideal cut? What's the best way to see them side by side to be sure which one I like the best? Any other advise on choosing a Princess at this size?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[davidelevi]

You need to be careful in distinguishing between facet patterns and cut quality. Leo, Solasfera and 1000 other "patented cuts" refer to a specific facet pattern, different from a non-standard princess (if such a beast exists) because of the number and placement of facets on the pavilion or the crown.

Using each pattern, there is the opportunity to cut a sparkly, fiery and lively diamond or a dull piece of glass. This is cut quality.

This GIA paper refers to rounds, but the majority of the content and above all the observation methodology applies to any shape. It should provide you with a good approach as you go about finding your diamond. http://www.gia.edu/d...ut_fall2004.pdf

One more tip: there are significant jumps in price/carat (all else being equal) at 0.90 and 1.00. If you can stay below these thresholds, you will get visually the same size but at a significantly lower price.

[barry]

A good starting point would be to visit your local area jewelers and compare Princess cuts with a variety of various measurements and specs. Achieving a beautiful face up look in fancy shapes can be achieved with various combinations of table, crown, and pavilion angles and percentages.

A "branded" stone will not necessarily deliver greater "bling" than a non-branded stone.

[lh777]

Hey thanks for the info. I found the proportion tables on this site for a Princess. So as long as I stay within the proportions of a 1A cut diamond, the brilliance, fire, and scintillation of a branded stone may or may not be better than a non-branded one?

And on the certification issue, I read somewhere that GIA was the only one to trust. Do you agree? is the Gemex Brilliancescope a cert I should ask to see?

Thanks

[denverappraiser]

I don't count those proportion tables as providing much in the way of useful information for shoppers and they say nothing at all about the brilliance, fire or scintillation. That's true of specialty cuts as well by the way. Some are good and some are bad but it's not a function of the length/width ratio any more than it's a function of the facet count.

I"m not big on the Gemex thing either but it has more to do with their marketing than anything else. They are only available through a fairly narrow group of dealers so you don't have a realistic choice of asking to see the reports. The few dealers who have them push them pretty hard so you won't have to ask to see it and no one else can even get them.

I do like GIA as a grading source for clarity and color but I would also consider AGS both for that and for their cut grade on princesses.

[lh777]

Hi and thanks for the input, but now I'm hearing branded cuts with more facets don't matter, the proportion tables don't matter, so what objective criteria should I be using to judge between all of these choices? Is it all just go with what looks good to you? Thanks

[barry]

I agree with Neil that the proportion tables are not definitive but IMO are a good way to get started.

Visiting your local jewelry stores to examine the different proportions will help, and if you're shopping on-line, working with an experienced diamond dealer is invaluable.

[davidelevi]

 lh777, on 15 July 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hi and thanks for the input, but now I'm hearing branded cuts with more facets don't matter, the proportion tables don't matter, so what objective criteria should I be using to judge between all of these choices? Is it all just go with what looks good to you? Thanks

To some extent that is not a bad approach, if feasible. The issue is the number of stones available (too high) and the availability of information (too low and largely irrelevant).

The problems with the proportion tables are that:

1. They use proportions that are easy to measure and useful to ID the stone (table and depth%), but not particularly relevant to the way it looks.

2. There are combinations of table/depth that work and combinations that don't, but most importantly for a given table/depth combination there will be other angles/proportions that make it work or not, and you have no information over these.

As Barry says, the tables are a starting point and a first very rough sieve, but the proof of the pudding (or stone) is in a very different set of information. You need to get hold of this information; you can do this by looking at the stone - which is fine if you have a vendor(s) that you can work with nearby - or remotely via video/photos/scans including ASET/IdealScope/other reflector images.

AGS-graded stones are very good in as much as the report includes an ASET image and a cut grade. This will help you figure out what a "well cut" princess looks like and what a good ASET image looks like. The issue is that there are relatively few AGS-graded stones, and they mostly are AGS-0 (Ideal) or AGS-1 (Excellent) for cut, so they don't really provide you with a view of what a "poorly cut" stone looks like.

[lh777]

Thanks again for the info. I thought this was going to be a "plug in the right numbers, get a good diamond" kind of process, but I see now it's not that simple. Looks like I'll have to go out and look around, but most mall stores like Kay, Jared, Zales seem to have either Leo or their own special brand, so not much opportunity to compare lots of different brands under the same conditions. So now I guess where to shop becomes most important. I wonder how you could ever buy a diamond over the internet without being able to see and compare before you buy?

Thanks so much for the help.

[davidelevi]

Jared's Peerless collection is not custom cut, is AGS graded and I believe AGS-0 for cut, so it will give you a good reference, even if you don't shop with them.

I would avoid custom cut stones (e.g. Leo) - read a few of the recent threads to see why...

As to your question of how to buy remotely - I think the answer is twofold:

1. Choose your dealer(s) before you start picking stones. Read through sites' fine print, understand return, upgrade and exchange policies, call people and see how they answer a few basic questions.

2. The buying process changes to: explore your options via good quality photos and video - most "good" vendors will be happy to help with that, including comparisons, reflector images, various scans etc. Then finalise your selection by spending a small portion of what you save compared to high street prices by having a stone or two shipped (and possibly returned)

[denverappraiser]

 lh777, on 16 July 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:

I wonder how you could ever buy a diamond over the internet without being able to see and compare before you buy?

Thanks so much for the help.

There's two basic approaches. The first is to simply not care. Go to the store, hand them your visa, tell them the shape and budget and let them pick one. A lot of people do this (more than you think) and it works just as well over the Internet as it does in person. Go to a site like Blue Nile or Costco.com that has a big footprint and a stable company and just fill out the form. You may not end up with the very best stone, or the very best price but you'll do ok , it works just fine, you'll pay a reasonable enough price for what you get, and you can devote your time and emotional energy elsewhere.

The other is to not view it as a purchase at all. What you're putting out is for the shipping to bring in the stone so you can look at it, show it to your friends and appraiser, compare it to others and generally take it for a test drive. If it's not right, back it goes without so much as a goodby and all you've lost is some shipping and some time. This also works well. Personally, I prefer it. It's a bit more work and you can't exactly do it no your lunch break but if you choose your dealer(s) carefully, it often results in better stones, better prices or both. As a side benefit, it comes with great bragging rights that you've searched the world over for exactly the right stone, finely found the perfect one at a little store in the middle of nowhere and brought it in just for her. Damn you're good. You end up being able to converse wisely about things like crown angles and you'll be amazed at how many of your friends and coworkers will end up asking you for your expertise when they finally bite the bullet and buy one for their own honey. FREE BEER!

[lh777]

Hey all, I found this site called [url="http://goodoldgold.com"]goodoldgold.com[/url] They have lots of video's showing the different looks the various scopes give, like hearts and arrows, ASET, DaimXray. Seemed very informative.

Is anyone out there familiar with this site? Has anyone bought from them?

Any opinions would be welcome.

Thanks

[davidelevi]

Jon/GOG are A1. He has had to cut down on some of the guarantees lately, but you will be treated honestly and get a good selection of excellent quality stones.