7 replies to this topic

[atwort]

Hello all,
New to the board, New to diamond shopping. I recently found the perfect diamond for an engagement ring. Here's the thing- the dealer says it doesn't come with certification. From research I've done online and other jewelers locally, it seems this deal is too good to be true.
Here are the specifics (from what they claimed)

Round cut
.69 carat
SI2
H
Price-990

Really, the diamond looks beautiful. The whole process with the jeweler was fantastic, low pressure, friendly, etc. The business has been around for over 100 years.

My question is- Is it too good to be true? Should I request they certify it before making the final purchase?
I'm a noob, any advice helps!
Thanks

[davidelevi]

Well - the question is: to what extent can you trust the jeweller's own grade?

Truly well-cut GIA/AGS graded 0.6x H/SI2 go for $1400-1500. The cost of a GIA report for that stone is ~$60, plus shipping etc. call it $150. Which brings the "value" of the diamond with a GIA report to $1150 - which could be a very fair price for saving the vendor the time and work (limited, but still there) to have the diamond graded by GIA, or it could be a fair price for a not-super-well-cut diamond (they still sparkle; just a little less and perhaps not in all lighting conditions). Or - assuming you cannot trust the grade - you could be getting a K-I1 which is worth $750. No way of telling without seeing the diamond.

Is it likely that the vendor would risk ruining their reputation for $250? Probably not, but I've seen worse things. "Trust but verify" to the extent you can.

Other than they have been in business for a long time (so had Bernie Madoff), what do you know about the jeweller? You seem to like them. Do you know other customers? Are they happy with their experience? Any negative BBB or RipoffReport flags? Can you find reviews for them online that seem genuine?

Are you going to get the diamond appraised by your own independent expert? If so, wait for their input, otherwise try to check the grade by comparison. Can you compare the diamond to other, GIA graded ones? - ask the vendor for help, they shouldn't have a problem with that; here is a quick checklist of questions for your comparison:

Does it look more yellow than a diamond graded H when seen from the side against a sheet of white paper in diffused natural light?
Are the inclusions visible easily when looking through the table without a loupe? Do they bother you? What about through the side? With a loupe?
Is the diamond lively and sparkly, with no obvious static dark zones and a pleasant mix of white and coloured light?

If the answer to the first two questions in no, and the third one is yes, then go for it.

Edited by davidelevi, 15 June 2011 - 12:19 AM.

[denverappraiser]

Offer him this.

He sends it to GIA for grading (GIA, not a substitute lab).

If it comes back as described or better, and at least Very Good in the cut grade, you pay for the stone, the lab fees, the shipping, and a $50 service fee for their trouble. Everything. Depending on how far you are from NYC or sunny Carlsbad, it'll take about 2-3 weeks.

If it comes back with an unacceptable grade for whatever reason, the deal is off. He pays the fees, he keeps the stone, and you walk. No harm done and no costs to you beyond some wasted time. He's welcome to offer you the stone for a different deal if he wants and you can take it or leave it as you want. There's no obligation on either one of you.

Souond fair?

Anyone wanna bet whether he accepts this offer?

[LaurieH]

I doubt he will, because it requires more work on his part. That said, I would never buy a stone characterized that low clarity without a report guaranteeing me that it's not any lower. Once you get into the I1, I2 (I3) category, you potentially have stone integrity issues, and personally, I wouldn't want to go there.

[denverappraiser]

Any jeweler who actually believes his own grading should be happy to accept. He get's to defend the honor of his grader, he gets to 'test' his own skills and he's got a $1000 sale hanging on the results. He even gets a $50 handling fee for boxing it up and sending it in. The worst case scenario is that he ends up with a correctly graded and GIA documented stone that he can sell to the next guy without having to deal with all of these questions about GIA grading. The ONLY downside is if he doesn't trust his own grader. In that case he knows he won't get the sale, he's spending $100 for a report that he can't use, and he wastes a few weeks in market exposure time. Nearly every jeweler declines this offer and THAT'S the reason, not the work associated with doing business with GIA. That's why this is such a probitave question. If HE doesn't trust his own grader, why should YOU?

[jan]

atwort, on 14 June 2011 - 09:29 PM, said:

Hello all,
New to the board, New to diamond shopping. I recently found the perfect diamond for an engagement ring. Here's the thing- the dealer says it doesn't come with certification. From research I've done online and other jewelers locally, it seems this deal is too good to be true.
Here are the specifics (from what they claimed)

Round cut
.69 carat
SI2
H
Price-990

Really, the diamond looks beautiful. The whole process with the jeweler was fantastic, low pressure, friendly, etc. The business has been around for over 100 years.

My question is- Is it too good to be true? Should I request they certify it before making the final purchase?
I'm a noob, any advice helps!
Thanks

You probably don't want to hear this but deals too good to be true always are.
Make sure you get a GIA or AGS lab report with the diamond.
If your dealer is just one clarity grade off and the stone is an I1 versus SI2, it isn't a very good deal at all.

Edited by jan, 16 June 2011 - 10:51 AM.

[alvina]

davidelevi, on 15 June 2011 - 12:14 AM, said:

Well - the question is: to what extent can you trust the jeweller's own grade?

Truly well-cut GIA/AGS graded 0.6x H/SI2 go for $1400-1500. The cost of a GIA report for that stone is ~$60, plus shipping etc. call it $150. Which brings the "value" of the diamond with a GIA report to $1150 - which could be a very fair price for saving the vendor the time and work (limited, but still there) to have the diamond graded by GIA, or it could be a fair price for a not-super-well-cut diamond (they still sparkle; just a little less and perhaps not in all lighting conditions). Or - assuming you cannot trust the grade - you could be getting a K-I1 which is worth $750. No way of telling without seeing the diamond.

Is it likely that the vendor would risk ruining their reputation for $250? Probably not, but I've seen worse things. "Trust but verify" to the extent you can.

Other than they have been in business for a long time (so had Bernie Madoff), what do you know about the jeweller? You seem to like them. Do you know other customers? Are they happy with their experience? Any negative BBB or RipoffReport flags? Can you find reviews for them online that seem genuine?

Are you going to get the diamond appraised by your own independent expert? If so, wait for their input, otherwise try to check the grade by comparison. Can you compare the diamond to other, GIA graded ones? - ask the vendor for help, they shouldn't have a problem with that; here is a quick checklist of questions for your comparison:

Does it look more yellow than a diamond graded H when seen from the side against a sheet of white paper in diffused natural light?
Are the inclusions visible easily when looking through the table without a loupe? Do they bother you? What about through the side? With a loupe?
Is the diamond lively and sparkly, with no obvious static dark zones and a pleasant mix of white and coloured light?

If the answer to the first two questions in no, and the third one is yes, then go for it.

[alvina]

hey..... i did not know much about diamonds but after reading your post i can say i know how to buy a good diamond. thank you