Hello,
I've been looking for a diamond ring for my wife. I came accross a Melbourne jeweller with the above name. I loved their design and the ring but the price is a bit expensive.
I'm no expert in diamonds. It's a 0.73 carat brilliant cut, 2nd best clarity, excellent cut and 2nd best colour (sorry my description is bad). The diamond looks fantastic in cut. It's in 18k white gold.
I went to another jeweller and they said I should be paying about $2 k less for that ring. They showed me their samples but for some reason their diamonds did not look as good in terms of light reflections.
Can anyone tell me whether it is worth spending extra with Franco. I'm inclined towards them even though they don't try to convince me as much as the cheaper dealer. I don't mind paying extra if it is justified.
Thanks
Katik
0
Franco Jewellers
Started by Katik, Jun 10 2011 10:51 PM
7 replies to this topic
#2
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- A-List Jeweler
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- 3,166 posts
Ideal Diamond
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- Location:Switzerland
Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:25 PM
I don't know the particular jeweller you have visited, however here are some general pointers:
0. Read the tutorials on this site (and other diamond review sites) - you are at risk of spending many thousands of dollars more than you need if you don't have a basic understanding of what you are buying, what it is worth and how to go about buying it.
1. Cut is by far the most important variable in determining the looks of a diamond. It seems that the first diamond that you saw was cut better. However, be careful to look at the diamonds in several lighting environments; typical jewellers' lighting would make a sow's ear look like a silk purse.
2. If you are serious about diamond comparison, you should see the stones unmounted. I understand that you want to buy a ring and looking at the finished item is a lot easier, but since usually the largest cost in a diamond ring is the diamond, it's worth spending some time trying to understand and discriminate on that part on its own.
3. In any case, if buying a diamond worth several thousands you should ask about grading reports ("certificates"), making sure they come from a reliable lab - this means GIA or AGS. Don't assume that because the dealer (or Joe's Lab on the corner) is willing to call a diamond "colourless", "flawless" and "ideal cut" the diamond is colourless, flawless and ideally cut.
4. Tiny details matter a lot in diamond pricing. A 0.98 F/VS2 and a 1.02 D/IF will look effectively the same once set and without a loupe. The latter costs 4-5 times the former. Your description of "second best" could cover a multitude of sins (and if it is the jewellers that gave you that definition, it probably does - skip the jeweller) and a range of values of 10:1.
5. Once you have more precise details of what you are buying, compare it to some competitive prices using the Diamond Finder. Even if you have no intention of buying from the dealers advertising on the Diamond Finder, it will give you some understanding of pricing and possibly leverage in negotiating with the seller.
6. You may want to fix the typo just after "0.73 carat brilliant"...
Other than that, not much we can say at this stage. Do come back with more facts and questions, and good luck with the search.
0. Read the tutorials on this site (and other diamond review sites) - you are at risk of spending many thousands of dollars more than you need if you don't have a basic understanding of what you are buying, what it is worth and how to go about buying it.
1. Cut is by far the most important variable in determining the looks of a diamond. It seems that the first diamond that you saw was cut better. However, be careful to look at the diamonds in several lighting environments; typical jewellers' lighting would make a sow's ear look like a silk purse.
2. If you are serious about diamond comparison, you should see the stones unmounted. I understand that you want to buy a ring and looking at the finished item is a lot easier, but since usually the largest cost in a diamond ring is the diamond, it's worth spending some time trying to understand and discriminate on that part on its own.
3. In any case, if buying a diamond worth several thousands you should ask about grading reports ("certificates"), making sure they come from a reliable lab - this means GIA or AGS. Don't assume that because the dealer (or Joe's Lab on the corner) is willing to call a diamond "colourless", "flawless" and "ideal cut" the diamond is colourless, flawless and ideally cut.
4. Tiny details matter a lot in diamond pricing. A 0.98 F/VS2 and a 1.02 D/IF will look effectively the same once set and without a loupe. The latter costs 4-5 times the former. Your description of "second best" could cover a multitude of sins (and if it is the jewellers that gave you that definition, it probably does - skip the jeweller) and a range of values of 10:1.
5. Once you have more precise details of what you are buying, compare it to some competitive prices using the Diamond Finder. Even if you have no intention of buying from the dealers advertising on the Diamond Finder, it will give you some understanding of pricing and possibly leverage in negotiating with the seller.
6. You may want to fix the typo just after "0.73 carat brilliant"...
Other than that, not much we can say at this stage. Do come back with more facts and questions, and good luck with the search.
Edited by davidelevi, 10 June 2011 - 11:37 PM.
Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com
Diamonds by Lauren (http://diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com
#4
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- A-List Appraiser
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Ideal Diamond
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 08:44 AM
If the '2nd best' business is a summary of what they told you and you might just be misremembering then I'll cut them a bit of slack until we learn what they actually said, but if they're using a grading system that sounds anything like this, don't just avoid the deal, avoid the dealer.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Professional Appraisals in Denver
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Professional Appraisals in Denver
#5
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- A-List Member
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- 851 posts
Ideal Diamond
- Gender:Female
Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:16 PM
I took the liberty of correcting the typo *snicker* oh...and it was a good'un, indeed... The best was figuring out how to edit the topic line when someone made a similar error a few weeks back... hahah! Let's just say, proofreading is an invaluable skill not everyone possesses
Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA
#6
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- Member
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- 4 posts
Newbie
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:49 PM
Hi I found more information.
There are two rings I'm interested in.
1. Very good to excellent cut, 72 points, E colour, SI1 clarity with GIA certificate, in 18 kt white gold - AUD 6500
2. Very good to excellent cut 90 points, F colour, SI 1 clarity with GIA certificate, in 18kt white gold - AUD 9,950
Which one would be the better deal?
Thanks
Katik
There are two rings I'm interested in.
1. Very good to excellent cut, 72 points, E colour, SI1 clarity with GIA certificate, in 18 kt white gold - AUD 6500
2. Very good to excellent cut 90 points, F colour, SI 1 clarity with GIA certificate, in 18kt white gold - AUD 9,950
Which one would be the better deal?
Thanks
Katik
#7
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- A-List Jeweler
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- 3,166 posts
Ideal Diamond
- Gender:Male
- Location:Switzerland
Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:32 PM
"Better deal" is completely relative. What do you want? And more importantly, what does your wife want/like?
Independent of personal taste - which is and remains the most important thing here, a few pointers:
1. Something is amiss in your description: GIA will grade round brilliants for cut, but they will call them either Very Good or Excellent; GIA will not give a range. So, which is which? Be careful - a report from a GIA graduate is NOT the same thing as a GIA report.
2. What do the settings look like? We sell 18k gold settings ranging from $500 to over $4000, depending on their complexity, amount of side stones/pave, method of manufacturing etc.
3. SI-clarity diamonds may be perfectly eye-clean, or they may have inclusions visible to the naked eye. Depending on how visible the inclusions are, the price will vary considerably. Have you seen the stones? Are they "clean" to your satisfaction?
4. Assuming a simple solitaire setting ($800 for caution), GST of 10%, customs duty of 5% on mounted jewellery (http://www.customs.g...er71goods_a.pdf) and an exchange rate of 1.05 USD/AUD, the two stones cost in USD net of tax:
0.72 E/SI1: USD 5150
0.90 F/SI1: USD 8300
If you use the Diamond Finder to look for competitive prices, you find that 0.72 (0.70-0.79) prices for comparable stones (assuming VG/EX borderline for cut, and likely to be eye-clean) are somewhere between USD 3500-3700. For the 0.90 (0.90-0.99), competitive prices are somewhere between USD 5300-5600.
My conclusion: you can do MUCH better on either stone. You are getting ripped off slightly less on the 0.72, but getting ripped off you are all the same. If you have a good jeweller, you can import the stone without paying duty (one of the oddities of many custom tariffs is that loose stones pay no import duties, but finished jewels do), and save another few hundreds by having it set locally. Whether that pays off depends on how much you need to pay for a good setting locally, of course.
Independent of personal taste - which is and remains the most important thing here, a few pointers:
1. Something is amiss in your description: GIA will grade round brilliants for cut, but they will call them either Very Good or Excellent; GIA will not give a range. So, which is which? Be careful - a report from a GIA graduate is NOT the same thing as a GIA report.
2. What do the settings look like? We sell 18k gold settings ranging from $500 to over $4000, depending on their complexity, amount of side stones/pave, method of manufacturing etc.
3. SI-clarity diamonds may be perfectly eye-clean, or they may have inclusions visible to the naked eye. Depending on how visible the inclusions are, the price will vary considerably. Have you seen the stones? Are they "clean" to your satisfaction?
4. Assuming a simple solitaire setting ($800 for caution), GST of 10%, customs duty of 5% on mounted jewellery (http://www.customs.g...er71goods_a.pdf) and an exchange rate of 1.05 USD/AUD, the two stones cost in USD net of tax:
0.72 E/SI1: USD 5150
0.90 F/SI1: USD 8300
If you use the Diamond Finder to look for competitive prices, you find that 0.72 (0.70-0.79) prices for comparable stones (assuming VG/EX borderline for cut, and likely to be eye-clean) are somewhere between USD 3500-3700. For the 0.90 (0.90-0.99), competitive prices are somewhere between USD 5300-5600.
My conclusion: you can do MUCH better on either stone. You are getting ripped off slightly less on the 0.72, but getting ripped off you are all the same. If you have a good jeweller, you can import the stone without paying duty (one of the oddities of many custom tariffs is that loose stones pay no import duties, but finished jewels do), and save another few hundreds by having it set locally. Whether that pays off depends on how much you need to pay for a good setting locally, of course.
Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com
Diamonds by Lauren (http://diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com
#8
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- Member
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- 4 posts
Newbie
Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:25 AM
davidelevi, on 13 June 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:
"Better deal" is completely relative. What do you want? And more importantly, what does your wife want/like?
Independent of personal taste - which is and remains the most important thing here, a few pointers:
1. Something is amiss in your description: GIA will grade round brilliants for cut, but they will call them either Very Good or Excellent; GIA will not give a range. So, which is which? Be careful - a report from a GIA graduate is NOT the same thing as a GIA report.
2. What do the settings look like? We sell 18k gold settings ranging from $500 to over $4000, depending on their complexity, amount of side stones/pave, method of manufacturing etc.
3. SI-clarity diamonds may be perfectly eye-clean, or they may have inclusions visible to the naked eye. Depending on how visible the inclusions are, the price will vary considerably. Have you seen the stones? Are they "clean" to your satisfaction?
4. Assuming a simple solitaire setting ($800 for caution), GST of 10%, customs duty of 5% on mounted jewellery ([url="http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/chapter71goods_a.pdf"][url]http://www.customs.g...er71goods_a.pdf[/url][/url]) and an exchange rate of 1.05 USD/AUD, the two stones cost in USD net of tax:
0.72 E/SI1: USD 5150
0.90 F/SI1: USD 8300
If you use the Diamond Finder to look for competitive prices, you find that 0.72 (0.70-0.79) prices for comparable stones (assuming VG/EX borderline for cut, and likely to be eye-clean) are somewhere between USD 3500-3700. For the 0.90 (0.90-0.99), competitive prices are somewhere between USD 5300-5600.
My conclusion: you can do MUCH better on either stone. You are getting ripped off slightly less on the 0.72, but getting ripped off you are all the same. If you have a good jeweller, you can import the stone without paying duty (one of the oddities of many custom tariffs is that loose stones pay no import duties, but finished jewels do), and save another few hundreds by having it set locally. Whether that pays off depends on how much you need to pay for a good setting locally, of course.
Independent of personal taste - which is and remains the most important thing here, a few pointers:
1. Something is amiss in your description: GIA will grade round brilliants for cut, but they will call them either Very Good or Excellent; GIA will not give a range. So, which is which? Be careful - a report from a GIA graduate is NOT the same thing as a GIA report.
2. What do the settings look like? We sell 18k gold settings ranging from $500 to over $4000, depending on their complexity, amount of side stones/pave, method of manufacturing etc.
3. SI-clarity diamonds may be perfectly eye-clean, or they may have inclusions visible to the naked eye. Depending on how visible the inclusions are, the price will vary considerably. Have you seen the stones? Are they "clean" to your satisfaction?
4. Assuming a simple solitaire setting ($800 for caution), GST of 10%, customs duty of 5% on mounted jewellery ([url="http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/chapter71goods_a.pdf"][url]http://www.customs.g...er71goods_a.pdf[/url][/url]) and an exchange rate of 1.05 USD/AUD, the two stones cost in USD net of tax:
0.72 E/SI1: USD 5150
0.90 F/SI1: USD 8300
If you use the Diamond Finder to look for competitive prices, you find that 0.72 (0.70-0.79) prices for comparable stones (assuming VG/EX borderline for cut, and likely to be eye-clean) are somewhere between USD 3500-3700. For the 0.90 (0.90-0.99), competitive prices are somewhere between USD 5300-5600.
My conclusion: you can do MUCH better on either stone. You are getting ripped off slightly less on the 0.72, but getting ripped off you are all the same. If you have a good jeweller, you can import the stone without paying duty (one of the oddities of many custom tariffs is that loose stones pay no import duties, but finished jewels do), and save another few hundreds by having it set locally. Whether that pays off depends on how much you need to pay for a good setting locally, of course.
Thank you very much. I saw GIA report and the cut is graded as "very good".
Your comments are very useful.
Regards,
Katik
