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Tracking Down A Specific Diamond


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#1 JamesB

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:53 PM

I've been looking at a lot of diamonds lately, but one online really has caught my eye. Here are the specs:

[indent]Princess cut, 1.19cts
5.88 x 5.85 x 4.42 mm
F, VVS-2
Cut: 0 - Ideal
Light Performance: Ideal
Polish / Symmetry: Ideal - Ideal
Flourescence: Negligible
[/indent]
It was graded by AGS (I prefer GIA, but maybe that doesn't matter). The spec sheet looks pretty good... the only thing I'm not sure about is the cut and # of facets. Deciphering the angles and facets pictured: Not my area of expertise :P
[url="http://www.niceice.com/view.php?image=5986/cert1304502412oeaPr8QyOVgm7flLJcYI"]AGS Grading Chart[/url] - [url="http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/protected/uploaded_files/stones/5986/loupe1304502412oeaPr8QyOVgm7flLJcYI.jpg"]A pic, for what it's worth[/url]

I'm not really comfortable buying a diamond online, though. A warranty is especially important to me, and those require cleaning every six months, etc. I'd kinda like to stick with one of the major retailers, despite the extra cost that will bring, because I want a name I can trust to be around in 25 years, and I want something that will still have a local store if I move to another state, etc.

If I show that spec sheet to a jeweler, would they be able to track it down?

And if you had to pick between Kay's and Gordon's to do so, which would you pick? ("Neither" is a fine answer if you have an alternative :))

Thanks!
James

Edited by JamesB, 24 May 2011 - 08:54 PM.


#2 davidelevi

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:55 AM

AGS is on a par with GIA as far as reliability and quality of the grading goes. In the case of a princess cut it has the very significant advantage of grading cut as well as colour and clarity - and this particular stone comes out of it very well indeed.

I'm not sure what your question about "the number of facets" means - this stone is cut with a relatively common style of crown and 5 pavilion mains. Nothing out of the ordinary. As per my response in your other thread, the number of facets is NOT a valid criterion to judge beauty or quality of a diamond.

Buying a diamond online is the big point here. Let me start by making some comments on your statements:

1. "Warranties require cleaning every six months". No they don't. Many stores offer warranties that are not tied to regular servicing. And most jewellery does not require servicing every six months - cleaning should be far more frequent (and can be done at home), and maintenance far less: it's a way for the retailer to get you back in store in the hope you'll buy something else.

2. "Despite the extra cost". The issue is not the extra cost; the issue is what is the benefit and the value it brings to you. Leaving aside the issue of missing one day on the six-months inspection schedule and losing all or most of the benefits (for no logical reason), what most people identify as "warranty" for loss or damage is nothing more nor less than a partial insurance policy. Since the "warranty" does not cover the more likely event of total loss of the ring (only the main stone - no ring, no warranty) or damage to the metalwork or theft and fire, most people also buy insurance. Which covers for partial loss... so you are effectively restricting yourself to a specific jeweller, paying extra for the warranty and then pay twice to have the item properly covered.

3. "A name I can trust". That is not necessarily a matter of whether the dealer trades online, whether exclusively (e.g. Blue Nile) or not (e.g. Tiffany) - Tiffany, Kay and Gordon all have internet sites where you can order and buy. There's plenty of solid, well run stores that choose to advertise their goods more widely by using the internet; the fact that they aren't located where you are has nothing to do with whether you should trust them. Use the ample return period offered by good dealers and look at the "online order" as an opportunity to see the stone, compare it to others and return it if it doesn't pass muster for the cost of a return shipment.

4. "Around for 25 years". Plenty of big names and chain stores that have been around for more than 25 years; plenty that have gone under or changed so much that they have lost the "special" feel (e.g. Mauboussin). Same for small stores. One of my favourite jewellers is a fourth-generation family owned shop. One outlet. Sons and grandchildren involved in the business. They will be there long after my children inherit my jewels and decide they don't like them and sell most or all at auction. Don't mistake large for durable.

5. "A local store". Fair point. But, at the same time, I ask you: For what? Most local jewellers will be more than happy to clean, tighten prongs and replate rings for free or nominal fees, even if the item was not bought from them. FedEx and USPS registered post are cheap, reliable and fast if you want the original seller to do something more substantial like sizing, or replacing a side stone or upgrading the main stone. And most chains don't have bench services at all locations, with many actually having one central location to which they send work - so the only thing that changes is that they charge you for shipping in the price of the repair rather than you paying for half of it directly. I won't even get into the so-so quality of much of the bench work done, but be aware that consistency of result is not a given within some chains.

In all, I appreciate the concerns, but I think there are aspects that you need to look at in more depth than the simple distinction between "online" and "not online" purchase.

One vocabulary point: that isn't a "spec sheet". It's a grading report, or "cert" (even though it doesn't certify anything).

Now the bad news: Infinity Diamonds (the cutters/manufacturers of this particular stone) work through a selected dealer network. I believe the dealers can call on each other's inventory, and some of them have physical stores. I don't think you'd be able to get hold of an Infinity Diamond outside of the dealer's network, but I would encourage you to look at a particular Infinity dealer: High Performance Diamonds - they have a store in Boise, Idaho, and a good website: http://www.highperformancediamonds.com - at the very least read through their terms and conditions, and see if you like what you read.

Finally, if I were to choose between Kay's and Gordon's, I personally would choose neither, for a number of reasons (not least that I dislike chains, unless they are committed to customer satisfaction in the way Nordstrom or Tiffany are). At the end of the day, what matters is how you get on with the people at your local branch, since this is the variable under your control. Stock, policies, senior management don't change, and you have limited influence (if any) over them anyway.
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#3 denverappraiser

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 04:44 AM

Good answers Davide,

I think the Infinity dealer network consists of several dozen stores. If you want an infinity, and you want to buy it in person, there may be a store not terribly far from where you are. They surely have a list on their website although I must admit I haven't looked recently. You're not likely to buy a dimaond very often and driving a few hours doesn't seem beyond the realm of reasonable.
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#4 jan

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:04 AM

View PostJamesB, on 24 May 2011 - 08:53 PM, said:

I've been looking at a lot of diamonds lately, but one online really has caught my eye. Here are the specs:

[indent]Princess cut, 1.19cts
5.88 x 5.85 x 4.42 mm
F, VVS-2
Cut: 0 - Ideal
Light Performance: Ideal
Polish / Symmetry: Ideal - Ideal
Flourescence: Negligible
[/indent]
It was graded by AGS (I prefer GIA, but maybe that doesn't matter). The spec sheet looks pretty good... the only thing I'm not sure about is the cut and # of facets. Deciphering the angles and facets pictured: Not my area of expertise :P
AGS Grading Chart - A pic, for what it's worth

I'm not really comfortable buying a diamond online, though. A warranty is especially important to me, and those require cleaning every six months, etc. I'd kinda like to stick with one of the major retailers, despite the extra cost that will bring, because I want a name I can trust to be around in 25 years, and I want something that will still have a local store if I move to another state, etc.

If I show that spec sheet to a jeweler, would they be able to track it down?

And if you had to pick between Kay's and Gordon's to do so, which would you pick? ("Neither" is a fine answer if you have an alternative :))

Thanks!
James


The AGS stone looks nice. I wouldn't purchase from either Mall location. Stick with AGS or GIA graded diamonds.
Jan
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#5 JamesB

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:19 PM

Thanks, all, good info, and the opinions are greatly appreciated!

Davidelevi: You make good points. I will have to do more research on insurance and look more closely at the warranties that online diamonds come with. If I may ask, what are you reasons for disliking them? It seems to be the general consensus, though.

Denverappraiser: I will look into Infinity's website to see about local stores, that's a great idea!


If I do get the stone loose online, how would I go about finding a mounting for it?

I'm seriously considering ordering that one to bring it in... I'm thinking a stone like that won't be available for long.

Thanks, all, for the input!

#6 davidelevi

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 03:51 AM

It's not so much disliking them, but believing that they are very much accessories, and accessories that have easily found substitutes in another market (e.g. insurance), possibly at lower prices/higher value. On the other hand, some "warranty" benefits such as sell-back programmes can be very valuable in some circumstances, and are not easily substituted.

Most "online" jewellers offer rings and setting services. And choosing setting and stone from the same dealer has definite advantages in terms of getting some more leverage on price and in terms of having someone who is responsible for the quality of the finished product with no contentions in the unlikely case that something goes wrong.
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#7 JamesB

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:01 PM

Well, I went in to Kay's to take a look at the Tolkowsky they drove up to Allentown to bring down (2 hrs, they couldn't ship it for some reason). It was a G-VS2 (um, what happened to the F-VS1 you told me you had found?), and I could see the inclusions, and I just kept thinking "it's just not good enough". All I kept thinking about was my (yes, it's already 'my' in my heart!) Ideal-cut F-VVS2.

The more the salesperson realized her sale was slipping away, the more slimy she became, and it was all so fake, and desperate, and the cutesy little tricks were so transparent ("here, why don't you look at YOUR ring one more time before you go"), and if you wanted my sale, you would have brought in what I was looking for, not something that was far inferior when my budget would have covered $3,000 - $4,000 more.

Asked Gordon's if they were able to get their hands on Infinity diamonds... the manager said he would look into it, asked me for the specs... called back later in the day to say he wasn't able to get in Infinity diamonds, but he had found some stones of a similar quality I might be interested in. They were lower weight, one was an E, but when I asked about the polish and symmetry, he hemmed and admitted they were good/very good. And again, all I could think about was my Ideal/Ideal F-VVS2.

So I talked to Wink from High Performance Diamonds... very knowledgeable guy, didn't feed me any sales BS, talked to me about warranty vs. insurance, said a lot of the same things I'm hearing here... so I told him if it was still available I would take it (it was in Europe to be shown to a client the day before :(). It's on hold, and if he's able to get it back in, I'm having it sent to an independent appraiser to look at (said he would ship to any appraiser from pricechoice.com... closest one is hours away... ugh).

Was on my way to Tiffany's when I talked to him... went there to look at a 1.02ct G-VS2... she picked it out just slightly above my price range, after tax (and the amount I told her not to go over was still $1,500 less than my actual price range).

When I asked her if they would take a deposit to give me time to get the rest, they of course said no. And when I declined, the saleslady (who I had long since developed a negative feeling about) gave me a condescending smirk, as if to say I wasn't good enough for Tiffany's, anyway. Except I don't feel the slightest bit inferior when someone I dislike and have a low opinion of acts like I'm beneath them. It just cemented what was pretty much an already-made decision for me.


So now I just have to hope that the diamond wasn't sold, and try to figure out something for the mounting.:wacko:


What an extensive, intensive task picking the right diamond is! Thanks everyone for your help so far!

#8 JamesB

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:07 PM

One interesting side note... I asked Wink if he would match competitors' prices, since the same diamond was available on other sites for less. He told me he offered it at the lowest price Infinity would allow. We kicked around where the discrepancy could be... apparently he hasn't updated his website yet; the wire-transfer price is 5% less, not 3% as stated. Which made both sites the same amount down to the dollar.

Just in case anyone else is shopping there :)

#9 davidelevi

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 03:10 AM

Interesting stories. Thank you for sharing - and I'm sorry about the treatment that you have received in some places. It doesn't reflect well on the industry as a whole.

Another option for you...

http://www.briangavi...GS-104044774001

slightly larger, G/VS2 (which visually you'll have a tough time telling from F/VVS1 once set; I doubt that what Kay's had was a VS2 if you could see the inclusions with the naked eye), quite a bit cheaper, and as far as one can see from ASET/IS images and AGS report, a great cut.

Also, don't discount the G/VVS1 that HPD has on the site. Although the overall cut grade is "only" AGS excellent, the reason it has that grade is because of finish (two small chips on the girdle), not because of anything intrinsically inferior in the cut.

On the setting - talk to Wink (if you end up buying from him). Or to whoever else you buy from. In general, dealers that sell high quality diamonds tend to have access to high quality bench jewellers for custom work and suppliers of high quality made-to-stock settings.
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#10 JamesB

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 06:48 PM

:: sigh ::

It was sold in Europe. :'( I am heartsick.

Wink has a couple of others to look at, but nothing quite in the same class. Close... but that diamond was flawless in my eyes.:(

Thanks for the link, Davide... that is a very nice diamond for the price. I would prefer to hold out for something slightly better, though... I'd rather use everything I have set aside and get the best diamond I can than go with a good deal that is slightly lower quality. I know, you'll never be able to tell the difference with the naked eye, or when it's mounted... but she is special to me, and I want to give her something that I know is as perfect as possible. Thank you for the link and for looking, though! Very much appreciated...

I did do some searching through other diamonds at that site, but nothing grabbed me quite the same way.

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of the same caliber as Infinity? I am very impressed with the diamonds they produce, but my experience is limited, so maybe there are other equally high quality (or better) companies?

Thanks, all!
James


PS: I didn't clarify well enough, I couldn't see the inclusions at the Kay's diamond with the naked eye, it was under a loupe. But they were very noticeable, then.

#11 davidelevi

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 09:37 PM

Manufacturers - I honestly don't know of. There's a number of dealers that focus on high quality cut stones and provide good information on their stock - in addition to Wink and Brian Gavin, check out Jon at Good Old Gold. Some of the larger shops can have good stones too, but you need to do a lot more work at discriminating what is truly excellent from the so-so.

Final (?) word on the inclusion in the Kay's stone - from the GIA site: "Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2) - Inclusions are noticeable to a skilled grader using 10× magnification" (my emphasis)
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