16 replies to this topic

[sam008]

Folks

The store I visit just told me that diamond prices went up by $700 for a carat or so just on Friday. He says the F VS1 1.19 I selected is now $700 more. Is that true?


Thanks
Raj

[sam008]

He also told me that on Friday, all diamond prices went up per carat as below

D VS1 $500 per carat
E VS1 $600 per carat
F VS1 $700 per carat
G VS1 $300 per carat
H VS1 $400 per carat

Is this true or anyway to validate it? Any web resources?

Thanks

[davidelevi]

Um. I'm inclined to call this complete BS, in the sense that prices will not "go up" overnight and across the board because a new Rapaport sheet comes out. Amongst other things, the Rap is backward looking and it reports prices at which diamonds have traded in the past day, week or month, and diamonds are not a commodity traded on an exchange unlike for example precious metals or agricultural crops.

Diamond prices are generally on the up at the moment, and this week there was a sudden jump in many Rap quotes; you can buy a subscription to the Rap sheet, but it's largely useless to a consumer and it's expensive ($400 for the cheapest last time I looked - the website is www.diamonds.net; ignore their so called "consumer info", which is frankly useless)

On the other hand, since (as you pointed out in the other thread) the jeweller does not own this stone, his supplier may well have decided to raise prices in response to a Rap sheet indicating an upward trend which many in the industry believe is here to stay.

Edited by davidelevi, 15 May 2011 - 10:32 AM.

[denverappraiser]

Rap is short for Rapaport, which refers to the Rapaport Diamond report (www.rapaport.com). As Davide points out, it's a pricing method used by many jewelers and their suppliers as a basis for their own prices. It's sort of like 'manufacturers suggested retail prices' on many manufactured goods. The dealers set their own prices in a competitive marketplace and they can and do accept or ignore Mr. Rapaports suggestions as they see fit. That said, yes, Rap prices went up several percent last week on a fair number of stones and the trend has been steadily upward for several years. Rap pricing includs variables for size and shape as well as the clarity and color that you listed so there's not really a straight answer to your question. That is surely what he's talking about though and, at least in some sense, he's correct. The details can easily be validated by a subscription to Mr. Rapaport's magazine.

FWIW, I'm among those who believes that higher diamond prices, especially on high end goods, is a trend that's going to continue at least for the near future.

Edited by denverappraiser, 15 May 2011 - 04:32 PM.

[sam008]

Guys

I'm paying the store in cash and he will be providing me a receipt and a GIA certificate. I'm going to ask hiim to write down the GIA certificate serial number on the receipt as well. Anything else I should be asking for?

Should I also plan to go to another store like Macy's to get the stone assessed

He also commented I should get the stone assessed every 5 years - I wonder why, is the value supposed to change?

Thank you

[davidelevi]

Get clear specification in writing of any return policy, charges etc. Not necessarily on the receipt, unless he doesn't have them in writing anywhere else.

If you have any concerns, then use a professional, independent appraiser. Another jewellery store will have a vested interest and often insufficient skills.

The regular reassessment is sensible if you are worried about becoming under/overinsured. The value will fluctuate with the market; at this point it's going up, but the last 3 years have seen a general decline after a (relative) boom in 2002-2008...

[sam008]

davide

the store doesn't have any formal write-up of a return policy and said they are usually quite lax. They offered to write down 'full refund within 30 days' on the receipt for me. I guess that would do

I plan to get an appraisal from macy's the day after to make sure everything is okay

Any other precious advice for me?

Thanks

[davidelevi]

Other than "enjoy" and "good luck", no, not really.

I still would not go to Macy's for an appraisal, unless you know and trust the person at Macy's who will be appraising the stone.

[denverappraiser]

I'm curious. What are you hoping to gain from a Macy's appraisal?

I'm not especially down on Macy's, they hire some capable enough people, but for new purchase style assignments they fail rather fundamentally. Most new purchase appraisals are doing it for a rather short list of reasons.

1) Is it the stone mentioned on the GIA report? Is it in the same condition as it was when the lab saw it? Any gemologist should be able to answer these. Macy's will be fine.

2) Is there any important information about the stone that is NOT present on the lab report. This usually has to do with cutting and/or durability concerns. Most appraisers are woefully to address this and, in particular, if you can't meet with the appraiser and ask questions directly, it's very unliklely this will be discussed. That is to say, dropping off the piece at a store, having them send it out to their expert and waiting for the report to come back rarely works well.

3) Are there any material, design or craftsmanship defects in the mounting? Again, most apprasers are remarkably unprepared to answer this but appraisers working within jewelery stores also have a huge conflict of interest associated with disparaging the work of their competitors. Even when they're right this is a tough one and the usual solution of something of a 'head in the sand' approach. If the client didn't notice, and the appraiser says nothing in the report then there is no conflict.

4) Did you get a 'deal'? Again,there's a huge conflict of interest problem here. Most appraisals are written for insurance replacement purposes and the definition of value being used is something like 'the expected cost to replace this item with another of like kind and quality at retail new and in the local marketplace'. That's a string of important qualifiers but it normally is a high estimate of what a theoretical local store would charge to custom make an item like yours if the opportunity arose. This is importantly different from what would YOU (the jeweler/appraiser) charge for one like it. You're asking what they think an unnamed but expensive competitor might charge if they could. In certain circumstances that might be useful, but it's a TERRIBLE way of deciding if you got a bargain.

5) Paperwork. The most important part of an insurance appraisal is the description, not the value conclusion. This includes the photographs, photomicrographs, plottings, brand identification, etc. Writing the report is a fair amount of work and most selling jewelers don't want to do it for 'free', even if they have the skills and the tools. Unfortunately, the big department stores don't want to do it either. Documenting takes time, time is money and they're all about maximizing money. Insurance companies will accept nearly anything so the minimum standard is whatever the client will accept. In most cases that's fantastically low since the only thing they look at is the value conclusion (people like big numbers), and the fee charged by the appraiser.

6) Due diligence. Usually diamonds are a fair amount of money, it's a blind item, and it just feels like you're being a smarter shopper to get a second opinion. I agree with this, it is, but not all second opinions are the same. Put some thought into what you're trying to get out of your appraisal service and then shop your appraiser. They are not all the same and you'll find that professional appraisers offer a MUCH better service. (Note: I'm not exactly unbiased about this topic. I'm a full time professional appraiser).

[LaurieH]

1--why are you going to a department store for an appraisal? Find an INDEPENDENT appraiser in your area (I recommend checking out NAJA.com to see who is in your area. That's not a recommendation for any particular appraiser, mind you, but they're trained gemologists as a requisite and they're trained in appraisals) It'll be worth the money you spend.

2--as far as how often you re-up your appraisal, that may or may not depend on your insurer. I believe most insurance companies want you to have it checked out and re-appraised every 3 yrs or so, and I think Jeweler's Mutual wants 2 yrs. It's a good idea anyway, because with the way that prices have changed, even if diamonds don't change significantly in that time, the metal of your ring mounting could (hello...from about 800-1400$ in 3 yrs for gold!) and you want to make sure you have ample enough coverage to replace the ring you have with something comparable in the case of loss or theft.

3--paying cash might give you a discount, but it doesn't give you the same protection as if you were to buy on a credit card, so make sure that you trust the jeweler that you're working with, for sure, and that you're sure that if you need something of them (repair, tightening the stone, etc) that they're going to be around in 3mo, 6mo, a year... Those guarantees you're getting are not worth much if he's closed up shop before you do anything with them. Just sayin.

Congrats and good luck!

[denverappraiser]

Laurie,

The National Association of Jewelry Appraisers website is www.najaappraisers.com

naja.com is the Native American Journalists Association. A good group I'm sure, but probably not who you had in mind.

[LaurieH]

LOL! thanks! and yeah....i guess my brain just was short-cutting it then! (oops)

[sam008]

This link helped - getting in touch with someone on Monday and will get it appraised

Apart from that, I'm also looking for a discreet engagement ring holder - it came with a box but my fiancee often removes it for various activities for her field in medicine. Although she can take it out and preserve it in the box which, I rather have her put her in a discreet looking holder like maybe a pen or something so that even if she mistakenly leaves it on her table, nobody will think of stealing it

Hope it's not too weird a request and probably someone has thought about preserving something that expensive in this manner

[lib135]

sounds weird to me

[AN0NYM0US]

lib135, on 22 May 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

sounds weird to me

lol

seriously though, does she often remove it in the same place, like her office? Would a safe work?

[davidelevi]

I understand your concern perfectly. My mother (who was also a doctor) lost her engagement ring by forgetting it on the sink while scrubbing for an operation. By the time the procedure had finished and she returned to the washroom, the ring was gone. Two ideas:

1. A pouch in silk or suede, without markings, closed with a drawstring or a pushbutton. You could even have one sown to your design/with your own fabric choice. It's small enough that it can fit in any pocket, and protects the ring. It's also a whole lot easier to carry around than a full-size rigid box when you travel.

2. A thin platinum chain with a swivel from which to hang the ring. This would only work if you fiancée does not go into operating theatre (no jewellery allowed in there!) but has to put gloves on for e.g. examinations. It is also a whole lot more expensive, but it's prettier and more difficult to forget.

Other than that, you can adapt a lot of objects to the purpose of hiding: a pencil/fountain pen box, an envelope (particularly if padded), a box of sweets, paperclips or tacks, a small notebook/diary in which you cut away a hole in the pages, even a recess in a little used piece of equipment (printer, fax, etc.). Some of these can work without any changes or may be "improved" by providing a padded receptacle. The trick here is to keep it confidential; the more people know that "she keeps the ring in the box of mint drops", the less likely it is to work if she forgets the box on the desk rather than closed in the drawer.

[AN0NYM0US]

I know a couple ladies that wear a CZ when they are concerned about their engagement rings when vacationing in higher risk areas. You could have a replica of her ring made relatively cheap for her work...just a thought.

It sounds like you will, but make sure you have it insured.

Edited by AN0NYM0US, 23 May 2011 - 05:21 AM.