10 replies to this topic

[Lanajoy]

I am just wondering if anyone can tell me how to verify the certification of a diamond. We have purchased a diamond that, to our misfortune I understand, is EGL International Isreal certified. We attempted to verify the certification on the EGL International website but it does not recognize the certificate number. The certificate appears to be the same as the examples and all the security measures are intact but we are still concerned that we cannot verify the certification. Any suggestions?

Edited by Lanajoy, 18 April 2011 - 12:29 PM.

[denverappraiser]

EGL International has an online look system for their documents here:

http://www.eglintern.../certi_gest.cgi

It's curiously picky about formatting type issues so be sure your caps lock is off, you get the spaces and hyphens right and that sort of thing. They also aren't all that complete in their online data and if you want to know if they issued a report for a particular number that's not online they may be able to tell you by email if you send them a scan of the document that interests you.

Whether or not it's the correct diamond for the document, correctly graded by EGL International, if it's been damaged since their inspection, or if there are important detals that EGL didn't include are questions to ask an appraiser or a lab that YOU choose (instead of the seller).

Counterfeit documents are really quite rare and I wouldn't expect a criminal to choose to knock off that particular lab in any case. May I ask why you're worried?

Edited by denverappraiser, 18 April 2011 - 01:16 PM.

[Lanajoy]

A jeweler told us that EGL includes appraisal and that should be enough to insure our diamond prior to sending it to be mounted. I now know it is only EGL-USA that does this. I was reading about the different labs, visited the website and figured I would put our info in. Much to my surprise it couldn't find our certification so I got worried. I did have a GIA certified gemologist look at it last week and she quoted much like the certificate but she also told us to try to return our diamond. We do like it though and it was in our budget so we decided to try to work with it. We are trying to have a setting custom made with sidestones that are similiar in color. The whole process of buying the diamond, getting it appraised,insuring the diamond, mounting the diamond, getting it appraised again is so much. At this point I wish he went to the mall and I didn't know anything about it until he asked me to marry him,lol. Thanks so much for your expert advice. It helps ease my worried mind:)

[denverappraiser]

Don't get frustrated. This is supposed to be fun and we're here to help. I'll let others answer some of your questions but I'll talk a bit about appraisals (since that's what I do for a living).

Meeting the minimum standards of the insurance company is easy. Any jeweler should be able to prepare a receipt that will suffice for this unless we're talking BIG money. It's YOU that should be picky. You are using the paperwork as evidence that you're getting what you're paying for. Secondly, you are looking for documentation so that the item can be replaced IN FULL in the case of a loss. This means the description, photographs and details are critical. Unfortunately, most 'free' jeweler supplied reports fail utterly on both of these objectives and are a massive conflict of interest on the former. It's not a second opinion if it comes from the same people who provided the first.

[Lanajoy]

Thank you for all your help. Diamond Review and a few members in particular have been our saving grace. We appreciate it more than you could ever know!
We have an appointment tomorrow at noon to have the diamond appraised independently for a Jewelers Mutual policy. The appraisal company is the only company in our entire city that this website recommended so I have faith it will go fairly. Once insured we will be sending the diamond to a jeweler who agreed to make the setting we love with sidestones similiar to our center diamond.

As for the EGL certification, we have not been able to verify anything. The certification number did not show up on the website. I e-mailed EGL International and this was the response:
Dear Lana,
This certificate does not appear in our data base.
Since we have no information about this certificate we are unable to help
you with your inquiry.

Sincerely yours,
Mali Aviram

What to make of that, I am not sure. Would you suggest I call the USA number on the certification? Should I call the company I purchased the diamond from? or should I just get the appraisal tomorrow and go about life as it was with no worries? It doesn't seem very practical for it to be fraudulent,lol. Anyhow, thanks in advance for any advice and I will keep everyone updated as to the Fricano engagement:) How exciting!

[davidelevi]

I would put the weight squarely back on the vendor - they sold you the stone as graded by a particular lab; they should provide you with proof to your satisfaction that the report is genuine. However, since they have you in a bind because you are now past their return period, they may simply ignore your requests.

If there is a phone number provided on the report, it makes sense to call them, and figure out who they are before you tell them what you are looking for, and then explain the reasons for your caution. Actually, if it is EGL-USA it's better news than EGL-Israel or Belgium, since they tend to be more consistent in their grading. As Neil pointed out, it's very unlikely that someone would go to the effort and expense necessary to produce a fake EGL report for a stone like yours.

It's now fairly academic since you have decided to keep the diamond, but if the report cannot be located by any of the EGL labs it would be cause to go back to the vendor and return the stone since it was described and sold incorrectly. In fact it would probably be enough to press criminal charges, as well as getting your money back.

Final thought: it would be good (or bad) if you named (and shamed) the vendors: they haven't treated you well, nor have they provided quality goods. Letting others know about unreliable and shoddy vendors may help them avoid getting into the same trouble you are going through at the moment.

Let us know how you get on, and please come back to post photos!

[Lanajoy]

davidelevi, on 20 April 2011 - 10:44 PM, said:

I would put the weight squarely back on the vendor - they sold you the stone as graded by a particular lab; they should provide you with proof to your satisfaction that the report is genuine. However, since they have you in a bind because you are now past their return period, they may simply ignore your requests.

If there is a phone number provided on the report, it makes sense to call them, and figure out who they are before you tell them what you are looking for, and then explain the reasons for your caution. Actually, if it is EGL-USA it's better news than EGL-Israel or Belgium, since they tend to be more consistent in their grading. As Neil pointed out, it's very unlikely that someone would go to the effort and expense necessary to produce a fake EGL report for a stone like yours.

It's now fairly academic since you have decided to keep the diamond, but if the report cannot be located by any of the EGL labs it would be cause to go back to the vendor and return the stone since it was described and sold incorrectly. In fact it would probably be enough to press criminal charges, as well as getting your money back.

Final thought: it would be good (or bad) if you named (and shamed) the vendors: they haven't treated you well, nor have they provided quality goods. Letting others know about unreliable and shoddy vendors may help them avoid getting into the same trouble you are going through at the moment.

Let us know how you get on, and please come back to post photos!

[Lanajoy]

Ok so a couple of things going on today.
So we went for a diamond appraisal today so we can insure our diamond prior to having it mounted. I did not give any information to the appraiser just explained that we purchased online and would like an appraisal. The lady who helped us was knowledgable, extremely friendly and professional. The gemstone appraisal states that the purpose of appraisal is retail replacement value. The total retail replacement value for the loose diamond is 6900.00. We paid 1845.00. I am wondering if this is what I should hve expected? I see often times that appraisal values are inflated but I didn't expect such a difference.
As for the certification... It is in a small blue pamphlet that states, "Diamond certificate issued by EGL International. On the bottom it states the laboratories in Antwerp,Seoul, New York, London, Ramat Gan, Paris and Johannesburg. I looked at photos of certificates online and ours looked just like an EGL Isreal certificate. I read that EGL Isreal certificate numbers will be all numbers and begin with a 2, ours is. So anyhow the back shows an address and phone number for all the labs. I think I will try to call the USA branch because I know they will speak English.

With all of this said, I am going to call the lab and then the jeweler who sold us the diamond if needed. I may just be making a mountain out of a molehill, I hate to admit but I do sometimes, blush. I will be back to let everyone know.

[Lanajoy]

Good news is that I finally verified the certificate!!! I figured I was just overreacting but ya never know. So I google searched my cert number on my diamond. It came up with Ross-simmons website so I went on and searched their diamonds for one with a report like mine and it said to go to [url="http://www.egc-labs.com"]www.egc-labs.com[/url]. Who would ever think it would be that difficult to figure out. I know the lab isn't great and we wish we didn't purchase from Isreal but hey, now we know for next time. Thanks so much for helping us!

[davidelevi]

Good to hear that things are turning out to be OK.

Incidentally - you didn't purchase anything "from" Israel. The diamond was only graded (and possibly traded) there.

[denverappraiser]

Lanajoy, on 21 April 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

Ok so a couple of things going on today.
So we went for a diamond appraisal today so we can insure our diamond prior to having it mounted. I did not give any information to the appraiser just explained that we purchased online and would like an appraisal. The lady who helped us was knowledgable, extremely friendly and professional. The gemstone appraisal states that the purpose of appraisal is retail replacement value. The total retail replacement value for the loose diamond is 6900.00. We paid 1845.00. I am wondering if this is what I should hve expected? I see often times that appraisal values are inflated but I didn't expect such a difference.
- snip -

If you don't understand the context of the value conclusion, call up your appraiser and ask her to explain what her numbers mean. That's part of what you paid her for. The same thing can have a different value depending on the definition of value being used and the context of the report. Her idea of 'retail replacement value' is likely different from mind and it may or may not be useful to you but the first thing is to ask what it is. It SHOULD be written right in the body of the report by the way.