9 replies to this topic

[hlouisaj]

Hello! I am doing the research for my own engagement ring (my boyfriend wants me to get what I want and I appreciate that!! ) and am having a hard time deciding on the center stone. We do have a budget and I want to have at least .75 carat round. I went to a jewleler yesterday who carried Star 129 diamonds. The one that we were discussing is a .90 carat K color and I1 but he says that you cant see the inclusions/warmth in the color because of the Star 129 cut. ( I'm not sure that I agree with him about the color because it IS a little warm for my liking..) He is charging $2750 for this diamond. It IS pretty and sparkly BUT I sort of feel like the cut is making it possible to sell a diamond that if cut with the normal 58 facets, no one would want. Am I right in thinking this? Is this just a way to be able to sell more diamonds? Is this a good price for this stone? Also whats up with the "clarity enhancement" that is being done to diamonds?? I really appreciate any thoughts or help anyone can give me!! Thank you in advance!! Heidi

[LaurieH]

I'm not familiar with that particular cut, but from what you've said, YES you are absolutely right--by adding more facets, they're basically making the diamond more 'sparkly' without having to fuss with light performance which, chances are, an I1 would not have nearly as good as something with higher clarity. It is a way to get more bling for your buck, theoretically, but at an I Clarity, then, by definition it means that the diamond has inclusions that are visible to the naked eye and/or potentially compromise the integrity of the stone. So it's kinda like putting pretty fondant decorations on a cake that is all crumbly underneath. Looks good on the surface, but inside, not so much.


Clarity enhancements can be a number of things--could be that it's treated with high pressure and heat (HPHT) to make the inclusions less visible, or things like laser drilling the diamond and "bleaching" out dark inclusions. Either way, they bring the price of the diamond down, but that's because it's really a lesser quality stone--they're just trying to make it look better, but they're not really making it "better".

I don't know how long you've been reading posts on here before posting yourself, but I'm always a fan of getting a somewhat smaller diamond if it means that you can trade up in another C--esp Clarity. Also--here's something to note: numbers like .50, .75, .90, 1.-, etc, are referred to in the industry as "magic numbers". The price per carat goes up at these numbers because of the rarity and desirability. So if it helps keep you in your budget, look maybe a little bit smaller. A .74 carater is going to look about the same as a .75 carater, but you'll pay less per carat for it.

I would advise going with a traditional cut for a number of reasons, the least of which is that you'll better be able to price shop than going with any signature cut. Also, despite sometimes using lower quality diamonds, they are often going to charge a premium for a signature cut.

I'd see about playing with the Diamond Finder at the top of the page and see what you can find that might fit your budget. Bigger isn't always better--the best thing is getting something that is the prettiest thing that you can get for your budget and that you're getting your money's worth.

Good luck!

[hlouisaj]

Ok, thats what I thought... I've just been having a heck of a time finding something that's not either too warm or full of inclusions. I have found some stones online that sound good but am afraid of purchasing something I've never seen How reputable is buying stones from the internet? I thought this was supposed to be fun! lol

 LaurieH, on 31 March 2011 - 11:56 AM, said:

I'm not familiar with that particular cut, but from what you've said, YES you are absolutely right--by adding more facets, they're basically making the diamond more 'sparkly' without having to fuss with light performance which, chances are, an I1 would not have nearly as good as something with higher clarity. It is a way to get more bling for your buck, theoretically, but at an I Clarity, then, by definition it means that the diamond has inclusions that are visible to the naked eye and/or potentially compromise the integrity of the stone. So it's kinda like putting pretty fondant decorations on a cake that is all crumbly underneath. Looks good on the surface, but inside, not so much.


Clarity enhancements can be a number of things--could be that it's treated with high pressure and heat (HPHT) to make the inclusions less visible, or things like laser drilling the diamond and "bleaching" out dark inclusions. Either way, they bring the price of the diamond down, but that's because it's really a lesser quality stone--they're just trying to make it look better, but they're not really making it "better".

I don't know how long you've been reading posts on here before posting yourself, but I'm always a fan of getting a somewhat smaller diamond if it means that you can trade up in another C--esp Clarity. Also--here's something to note: numbers like .50, .75, .90, 1.-, etc, are referred to in the industry as "magic numbers". The price per carat goes up at these numbers because of the rarity and desirability. So if it helps keep you in your budget, look maybe a little bit smaller. A .74 carater is going to look about the same as a .75 carater, but you'll pay less per carat for it.

I would advise going with a traditional cut for a number of reasons, the least of which is that you'll better be able to price shop than going with any signature cut. Also, despite sometimes using lower quality diamonds, they are often going to charge a premium for a signature cut.

I'd see about playing with the Diamond Finder at the top of the page and see what you can find that might fit your budget. Bigger isn't always better--the best thing is getting something that is the prettiest thing that you can get for your budget and that you're getting your money's worth.

Good luck!

[hlouisaj]

Also, can someone give the exact specifications for a round diamond so I know what to put into the search engine? Thank you!!

[LaurieH]

It can be fun, but it can also be a little stressful. Buying online--from a reputable dealer--is nothing to sweat at all.

I will tell you that I used to work for one and there are a couple 'experts' around here who still do. The ones that we show inventory on in the diamond finder have been vetted as reputable, though we don't expressly "recommend" any one over another (CYA statement). But here's the thing:

MOST good, legit diamond selling companies online are going to be able to tell you about the diamond, provide certification, and will give you a reasonable return policy in case you DON'T love the diamond that you are sent, and preferably not charge a restocking fee (just make you pay for the return shipping and insurance). And you don't even have to take OUR word for it on the ones that we show in our diamond finder--you're welcome to independently research them. They're not the only companies out there, either, and certainly many are likely comparable (again, CYA). Ultimately, you have to go with what is most comfortable to you.

THAT SAID--I poked around on the diamond finder and knowing what you were seemingly willing to pay for that .90 K I1 (which without knowing the certifying entity--if there is one--we don't know if it is REALLY a KI1--it could be lower), I plugged in a size, color and clarity range of .50-.74, I-J Color (the low-end of the Near Colorless category, which is guaranteed to still face-up white), and VS2-SI2 and looked at what came back. As things were fitting more and more within that budget, I kept narrowing it down in favor of size and Clarity. I found PLENTY of diamonds in the .71-.74 range that were I-J Color and VS2 that were well under that 3k mark--AND GIA graded. Obviously it doesn't include the setting, but that gives you wiggle room to pick your diamond and pick your setting that still keeps you in your budget. So just know that it IS possible to get exactly (or SUPER close) to what you want without having to sacrifice

[hlouisaj]

Ok, well maybe we'll just do that then! I hate feeling like I can only choose from what the jeweler has in stock. Thank you so much for your help!

[davidelevi]

Well, let's start from one piece of data: there's 16 0.9x K/I1 diamonds listed on the Diamond Finder, and not one of them is above $2000. Only one of them seems to well cut, but it's still below $2000. A 30% premium seems to be a lot for the extra facets. On the other hand, K/I1 is not a very popular combination for properly graded stones, so you are never going to be crowded with comparisons.

Is the Star 129 cut "just" a tool to sell an otherwise undesirable diamond? Well, I don't know. But have you ever seen a rough diamond? It's not particularly attractive, and at best it looks like a piece of glass. And I have seen well cut K and well cut I1 in traditional styles look very very pretty indeed (though I cannot recall a K/I1 - pretty or not - recently).

In all, I still think a branded custom cut is by and large a "marketing" tool, and not one I put a lot of value on, but in and of itself it is not enabling the sale of diamonds that would otherwise be terribly unattractive.

Clarity enhancement. There's two types: fracture filling, which is effectively using glass to heal open cracks in the diamond, and laser drilling, which uses a laser to drill a hole to reach the inclusion which is then bleached or eliminated using acid. Fracture filling is not considered permanent, while laser drilling is. Laser drilling in my view is OK, as long as it is disclosed and properly priced; fracture filling is not, since there are too many unknown factors involved.

One last thought - if you find K to be too warm/tinted, you are determined on getting at least 0.75 ct and your budget for the stone is somewhere around $3000, you can easily find a nice stone in the H-I/VS2-SI1 range, but you need to stay below the 0.90 ct threshold.

[ame]

I just found this thread searching for more jewelers that sell this cut so I joined to chime in, Hi David!

My personal experience with this cut spans over 8 years. I have personally owned a few Star129s and still do. I got the first two through a local jeweler I won't give any more business to, but my current one and the couple before it I obtained from Good Old Gold on Long Island. I have owned stones of various clarity grades from VS1 to SI2, but every color grade I owned was a G, H or I. And I almost bought a D color. And last year almost a J but I didn't like the clarity plot as much as my current one.

I am almost positive that they do not sell clarity enhanced stones, either. They rely on the cutting style to help "conceal" the inclusions.

I do know that Star stopped buying rough above an SI1 because more people wanted the lower clarities so they could get bigger stones in their budget. I personally prefer higher clarity, so their lower-clarity model bothers me a great deal, although the diamond I wore for the better part of 4 years was an SI2 that was completely eye clean and had an indented natural at the girdle that was prongable and otherwise invisible. When I was in the market to upgrade, I decided I wanted to stick with the H color, and go up in clarity. My current one is a VS1 and it was probably someone else's trade in.

I am actually looking into having two smaller stones custom cut to match my current center stone which is an H VS1 Star129. I just want them to be around .25ct each, and probably VS clarity, and presently they are not cutting them that small though the original cutter a few years back did at one point cut as small as .25 each, if not smaller still, for side stones and studs.

Since I have 8 years of owning experience, and I am not in the trade, I can tell you that I don't honestly believe it's a gimmick. We saw them in the case at the local jeweler when we were looking at diamonds after having a TERRIBLE Tiffany's experience and starting over. I wanted a Princess and when we saw these in the case, we were both pretty impressed. I think it's just a different cutting style for people like me who don't prefer a "basic H&A ideal cut round", which I find boring as all get-out. But I do know it's not a look everyone loves. I personally really like the faceting pattern and the edge to edge brightness and fire I get. And everyone that sees it comments on it very favorably.

I have seen some lower color I clarity stones by other brands that you'd never know were I clarity stones, because of how well they're cut. One brand specifically is Infinity. They have so many color and clarity grades that you'd be shocked at the actual grade of in person.

I would keep looking from the K/I1, because my brain wouldn't be ok with that, regardless of size or price. I have my own personal "sweet spot" in the H/VS range.

I attached a few pics of my current stone, there are a couple macro shots I took when I got my new iPhone toy the Olloclip, so the stone isn't very clean.

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Edited by ame, 20 February 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[davidelevi]

Hi Ame - thanks for posting this, and for going to the trouble of posting the photos (nice images, BTW!).

I am pretty sure that GOG doesn't sell CE stones either and I am certain that Star would disclose clarity enhancing treatments if there were any; the OP however had a question about it, so I answered - not making it perfectly clear (as you did, instead) that Star may use the greater number of facets to "hide" inclusions, but this has nothing to do with Clarity Enhancement.

[ame]

Sure thing! I wanted to make sure that whoever found this knew about what I know, and at least saw some pics. The images look a little degraded but at least they're there!

To my knowledge GOG does not do clarity enhanced. I know of maybe 2 instances, but it's not something I thikn he's interested in. I know Star doesn't do clarity enhanced, and it would definitely be disclosed.