28 replies to this topic

[Deal Doctor]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Diamond from Broadway Diamonds.com, a mainly online retailer. I was turned on to them through their ads on Google and Facebook and once I visited the site I was blown away with their selection and prices. The Diamond I purchased was an S12, F color, .95CT, VG cut, VG polish all in for $2,500 Canadian.

I recieved a EGL certificate, among other certificates, but I was mainly concerned that the diamond was certified and conflict free, which it was. I did get the Diamond appraised after I recieved it and the appaisal came back a over 3 times what I paid for it! Needless to say I was very happy and my wife loved it!

I would recomend them to anyone,

All the best.

[davidelevi]

Good to know - beware of inflated appraisals, though, since in most cases all that happens is you pay extra insurance for nothing (since the insurance company will shop for you at the cheapest price).

Do you have any photos?

[AN0NYM0US]

I just did a quick search on that site for a diamond I am looking for and these "wholesalers" are charging almost twice as much as other online retailers!

[Deal Doctor]

I am not an expert but I did a lot of research before I made my purchase and checked out many on-line retailers and found their prices to be higher or didn't offer the same programs/certificates. Can you please provide a specific example?

[davidelevi]

Here is a 1.08 RBC EGL graded G/VS2, excellent cut, no fluorescence at CAD 3630, advertised through the "diamond finder" here



and here is the nearest I can find on Broadwaydiamonds (1.02 presumably EGL graded G/VS2, excellent cut no fluorescence) at CAD 5634. I have picked something with as close as I could table and depth%.



not quite double, but near enough to prove the case for me.

I could nitpick on a number of other issues for the site, but since I am here representing a diamond seller (though in a slightly different segment), I don't think it's appropriate.

Edited by davidelevi, 02 March 2011 - 08:53 AM.

[Diamond Deals]

Davidelevi,

I find it funny that you can pick one diamond and review a whole company based on one comparison.

Why wouldn't you do the comparison based on what the customer said that they purchased to see if they got a good deal or not. When I put in the customers exact specs I found that he got a great deal compared to what I found on our diamond finder.

There are several factors that you have to consider here;
It appears as though this company sells diamonds to Canadians and does not charge any duties, tariffs, shipping or brokerage charges on their products - that 6-7% that the company absorbs. The company has many program incentives than most other companies don't have as well, eg./ lifetime trade up.

I just picked random characteristics like you did and when I did my search I found that like every other online retailer you have to study and compare first.

Product P57844
Round
1.07 ct.
SI1 Clarity
F Color
Ideal Cut
N Flr.
$3724

Nearest comparable on our diamond finder is $3675. Add the 7% to that and you're at more money, plain and simple.

I have to say that if the customer paid $2500 total for a .95ct, SI2, F including the 6-7% extras and the 10-15% tax that Canadians have to pay then he got a STEAL!

I am unbiased - I've never actually replied to a post, but I just want people on this board to have a fair chance at getting a good deal without being swayed by an unfair comparison. When a buyer says they had a good experience, do some probing before you make a biased opinion. Please do your homework next time!

Edited by Diamond Deals, 02 March 2011 - 10:42 AM.

[AN0NYM0US]

Deal Doctor, on 02 March 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

I am not an expert but I did a lot of research before I made my purchase and checked out many on-line retailers and found their prices to be higher or didn't offer the same programs/certificates. Can you please provide a specific example?

Sure. Here is an example of a diamond I am personally looking for: Princess cut, 2ct, D-F, VS2-SI1, EX-VG

BroadwayDiamonds

No Cert Listed

Princess Cut

2.01 ct
E
VS2
Polish: VG
Sym: Good

Depth: 71%
Table: 80%

7.27 x 6.85 x 4.86

$20,931

Union Diamond

EGL

2.02
F
VS2
Polish: Very Good
Sym: Very Good

Depth: 75.4%
Table: 75%

6.99 x 6.82 x 5,14

$9828

Now, I wouldn't ever consider buying an EGL diamond from an online vendor...but that is another thread.

Through my own search I found no less than 10 GIA certified diamonds with my above parameters for less than $15,000. To me that is a huge difference.

I am not saying broadway is a poor company, I have never dealt with them or heard of them, but from what I see I wouldn't buy from them.

[AN0NYM0US]

Diamond Deals, on 02 March 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Davidelevi,

I find it funny that you can pick one diamond and review a whole company based on one comparison.

Why wouldn't you do the comparison based on what the customer said that they purchased to see if they got a good deal or not. When I put in the customers exact specs I found that he got a great deal compared to what I found on our diamond finder.

There are several factors that you have to consider here;
It appears as though this company sells diamonds to Canadians and does not charge any duties, tariffs, shipping or brokerage charges on their products - that 6-7% that the company absorbs. The company has many program incentives than most other companies don't have as well, eg./ lifetime trade up.

I just picked random characteristics like you did and when I did my search I found that like every other online retailer you have to study and compare first.

Product P57844
Round
1.07 ct.
SI1 Clarity
F Color
Ideal Cut
N Flr.
$3724

Nearest comparable on our diamond finder is $3675. Add the 7% to that and you're at more money, plain and simple.

I have to say that if the customer paid $2500 total for a .95ct, SI2, F including the 6-7% extras and the 10-15% tax that Canadians have to pay then he got a STEAL!

I am unbiased - I've never actually replied to a post, but I just want people on this board to have a fair chance at getting a good deal without being swayed by an unfair comparison. When a buyer says they had a good experience, do some probing before you make a biased opinion. Please do your homework next time!

1. How can anybody compare diamonds on that site when they do not provide cerificates or let the consumer know which company certified which diamond.

From their site: To assure our customers of the exact grading specifications that we quote, certified diamonds above .45 cts will be accompanied with a Gemological Institute of America (GIA), an American Gemological Society (AGS), or European Gemological Laboratory (EGL) Certificate. These independent grading laboratories are the most recognized and respected in the world.

Well that is helpful...

I will bet anyone here they have more EGL certified diamonds than GIA and AGS combined.

2. Are you suggesting one can only judge a company by the OP's narrow specs? I am not looking for a .95ct round I am looking for a 2ct Princess...and you can read my "review" in my post above.

3. If the buyer is from the Province that broadway deals they MUST pay the Provincial tax.

The fact that this vendor seems to hide who certified any specific diamond makes me as a consumer very cautious and IMO shows slightly deceptive practices and/or a lack of knowledge on their part.

[davidelevi]

Diamond Deals, on 02 March 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Davidelevi,

I find it funny that you can pick one diamond and review a whole company based on one comparison.

I deliberately did not review. Another poster - that perhaps coincidentally has a forum ID very similar to yours - asked:

Quote

I am not an expert but I did a lot of research before I made my purchase and checked out many on-line retailers and found their prices to be higher or didn't offer the same programs/certificates. Can you please provide a specific example?(my emphasis)

I did that. Just below there is another example brought by another poster. I could continue providing examples, and you could continue to provide counterexamples. The fact is that their prices on quite a few stones seem to be way out. Which is the point of contention.

Quote

Why wouldn't you do the comparison based on what the customer said that they purchased to see if they got a good deal or not. When I put in the customers exact specs I found that he got a great deal compared to what I found on our diamond finder.

I am not disputing that the OP could have found a well priced stone. I am disputing their assertion that the retailer has unbeatable or even competitive prices across the board - or to use the retailer's gumph "50-80% below retail". They don't. Fact.

Quote

There are several factors that you have to consider here;
It appears as though this company sells diamonds to Canadians and does not charge any duties, tariffs, shipping or brokerage charges on their products - that 6-7% that the company absorbs.

From the company's site: (http://www.wholesalediamonds.ca/faq)

Quote

Taxes between Provinces differ, therefore, we do not include taxes in our prices.

Quote

The company has many program incentives than most other companies don't have as well, eg./ lifetime trade up.

Perhaps. And perhaps not; quite a few of the larger online dealers offer similar benefits, and competitive prices. Whether you want to put a value on those of 50, 60 or 100% of the original price is up to you.

Quote

I just picked random characteristics like you did and when I did my search I found that like every other online retailer you have to study and compare first.

Product P57844
Round
1.07 ct.
SI1 Clarity
F Color
Ideal Cut
N Flr.
$3724

Nearest comparable on our diamond finder is $3675. Add the 7% to that and you're at more money, plain and simple.

No you are not. As demonstrated above, the prices quoted do not include tax in either case. And the Diamond Finder price is in USD, not CAD, so you have to add another 2.5% to the retailer's price. In all, it's about a 4% difference against the famous Canadian retailer. And incidentally, the nearest comparable is priced at USD 3565, which is a 7% difference.

Quote

I have to say that if the customer paid $2500 total for a .95ct, SI2, F including the 6-7% extras and the 10-15% tax that Canadians have to pay then he got a STEAL!

No he did not. There's at least 20 stones with similar characteristics listed on this engine (and more listed on others) at that price for an EGL graded stone.

Quote

I am unbiased - I've never actually replied to a post, but I just want people on this board to have a fair chance at getting a good deal without being swayed by an unfair comparison. When a buyer says they had a good experience, do some probing before you make a biased opinion. Please do your homework next time!

Can you please tell me exactly where I have expressed an opinion? I am backing everything in my post with facts, verifiable by you or anyone else. You, on the other hand, do not seem to even bother looking at what you are saying (e.g. tax, currency or picking comparables).

Edit: formatting

Edited by davidelevi, 02 March 2011 - 11:51 AM.

[Diamond Deals]

I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. I JUST WENT TO UNIONDIAMOND.COM AND PUT IN THE SPECS THAT YOU SAID AND THERE IS NO 2.02 CARAT VS2, F EVEN IN THEIR INVENTORY. ACTUALLY THERE ISN'T ANYTHING BETWEEN 2.01 AND 2.04 CARAT, VS, F.

FYI, I CALLED BROADWAY DIAMONDS AND THE DIAMOND ON THEIR SITE IS A $20,044 AND IT'S GIA CERTIFIED WITH NO FLORESCENCE.

EVERY GIA CERTIFIED DIAMOND VS2, E WITH NO FLUORESCENCE AT UNIONDIAMOND.COM IS OVER 19K!!!! AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING THE EXTRA CHARGES THAT I WAS SAYING IN THE LAST POST.

STOP WITH THE BS AND BE FAIR TO THIS FORUM. LEARN HOW TO COMPARE BEFORE WASTING EVERYONES TIME. CALL THE COMPANIES, SEE WHAT THEY OFFER, SEE WHAT THE DUTIES AND SHIPPING WOULD BE, SEE WHAT IS INCLUDED, CHECK BBB RATINGS, CHECK ONLINE SCAM REPORTS, AND COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. DIAMONDS ARE SO TEDIOUS WHEN COMPARING. ONE THING THAT SEEMS SMALL TO A CONSUMER CAN DRASTICALLY AFFECT VALUE, LIKE THE CERT. THE ENTIRE GRADING REPORT SHOULD BE COMPARED LINE BY LINE - THAT'S HOW YOU COMPARE!

I CAN'T STAND BIASED OPINIONS. ANONYMOUS CAN SAY WHAT HE WANTS, BUT WHEN YOU POST A FAKE DIAMOND TO COMPARE AGAINST YOU'RE WORKING FOR SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE.

[Diamond Deals]

Taxes have nothing to do with brokerage, duties, shipping or tariffs. Taxes are extra and do vary based on province, which adds another 10-15% on top of the 7%. Check and see what it would cost to ship a ring to Canada. That's 17% to 22% more than you have considered because, again, you didn't do your homework!

[LaurieH]

*putting on her Moderator Hat*

First--STOP SHOUTING. All caps is NOT necessary except here and there for emphasis. Consider this a polite warning.

Second--someone disagreeing with you and posting information contrary to your assertions does not mean that they are "bs"ing or being unfair to the forum. I'd consider it friendly debate, and would appreciate you responding as such. Essentially branding someone a liar is uncalled for.

*removes Mod hat*

Third--and this is a personal note,--the way that you are going on, I can't help but wonder if you and/or the other poster are not in some way affiliated with this company, if you're not one person in the same.

Also--to say that the company absorbs all those costs, you'd have to be crazy--or they would. To absorb the costs of shipping, taxes, etc, of about 15% would put a company out of business VERY fast. Shipping, sure. That's the cost of doing business most of the time. I could ship something insured for 8k to Canada probably for 20-30 bucks. I'd have to check with USPS or FedEx/UPS for exact figures, but it's not exorbitant. But just because they do not charge customers the Provincial duties (PST/GST or HST, depending on which province they're in) on the front end and remit them on their behalf, doesn't mean that they are paying the taxes on the package for them, as it sounded like you implied in the first post. I'm sure the customer is responsible for it. If they were picking up that tab, they'd HAVE to somehow spread that cost out to their products to recoup it, thereby making their products more expensive overall. I don't see how that helps them stay competitive--or in business. Just saying.

[Diamond Deals]

FYI,

HERE IS THE BREAKDOWN AND THE LINK. BROADWAY DIAMONDS IS IN ONTARIO, SO LET'S BASE IT ON AN ONTARIO BUYER PURCHASING FROM THE UNITED STATES LIKE YOU ARE SUGGESTING TO DO AND THEN TELL ME IT WASN'T A GOOD DEAL FOR THE CUSTOMER THAT ORIGINALLY POSTED THAT HE PAID A TOTAL OF $2500.

[url="http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2010/01-99/ch71-t2010-02-eng.pdf"][url]http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-com...010-02-eng.pdf[/url][/url] (PAGES 11&12) - TARIFF IS 6.5%
[url="http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/gsthst/a/hstinformation.htm"][url]http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/gsthst/a/hstinformation.htm[/url][/url] - RETAIL SALES TAX IN ONTARIO IS 13.0%
[url="http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html"][url]http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html[/url][/url] - UPS CLEARANCE IS $78.50
[url="http://www.diamondideals.com/about/our_policy.cfm#ship"][url]http://www.diamondideals.com/about/our_policy.cfm#ship[/url][/url] - $50 MINIMUM TO CANADA ($50 is to Hawaii, not even international)
[url="http://www.wholesalediamonds.ca/faq"][url]http://www.wholesalediamonds.ca/faq[/url][/url] - LIFETIME TRADE UP AND OTHER PROGRAMS

IF YOU TAKE ALL OF THESE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MEANS WOULD NEED TO PAY AROUND $1900 FROM THE STATES TO COMPARE.
1900+6.5%= 2023.50
2023.50+78.50 = 2102.00
2102.00+50.00 = 2152.00
2152.00+13% = 2431.76

IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF???????? OR DO YOU WANT MORE??????????

[davidelevi]

My dear friend - duty into Canada on unmounted stones is exactly zero percent. Nil. Nada. Zilch. On jewellery - which is not what we are discussing, but since I have downloaded the entire Canadian tariff info, I might as well - duty is 6.5% as you say. But we are not discussing rings...

Taxes you brought into the fray asserting that the retailer quoted prices inclusive.

Brokerage fees are not charged by any of the retailers advertising here, or indeed by many others.

Shipping to Canada is very cheap. I can get any diamond you care to mention to Canada for $65 next day. I do, most weeks. What is expensive - or impossible - for consumers is shipping insurance (which any retailer worth its salt has included in their business insurance). And even then, USPS provides that very cheaply for the US and Canada.

So, go back and do YOUR homework.

Edited by davidelevi, 02 March 2011 - 12:19 PM.

[Diamond Deals]

Sorry for the CAPS lock. I have nothing to do with any company as you can see by my experience posting. I am actually looking myself and when I went on the site to compare for myself I saw how good my price was. Then I looked and saw they are from the Canada. Having family in Canada I know what a pain it is to ship to them.

For someone like me that is looking for a deal on diamonds I want to know where to go, not be strayed by a biased opinion pretending he's not. I will admit that the prices on all of the sites mentionned here are good, including UnionDiamond.com, DiamondIdeals.com, and BroadwayDiamonds.com. I just hate how they try to put one over the other based on one comparison, then they try to say the buyer didnt get a deal without doing their homework first.

It's just not right that people should be allowed to play politics in such an important decision in others lives. This isn't a pack of gum, this is thousands of dollars. That's why I'm trying to tell people what I've learned over the past 3 months of looking - comparison the type of certificate offered, compared each certificate line by line, call to verify if you don't know or are unsure, find out the true cost to get it to your door.

That's all I have to say, and if anyone disagrees with this post then it's said to say, but I've learned more in the past 3 months than each poster has learned in their entire career - Sad, but true.

[davidelevi]

Diamond Deals, on 02 March 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

FYI,

HERE IS THE BREAKDOWN AND THE LINK. BROADWAY DIAMONDS IS IN ONTARIO, SO LET'S BASE IT ON AN ONTARIO BUYER PURCHASING FROM THE UNITED STATES LIKE YOU ARE SUGGESTING TO DO AND THEN TELL ME IT WASN'T A GOOD DEAL FOR THE CUSTOMER THAT ORIGINALLY POSTED THAT HE PAID A TOTAL OF $2500.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-com...010-02-eng.pdf (PAGES 11&12) - TARIFF IS 6.5%
http://sbinfocanada....information.htm - RETAIL SALES TAX IN ONTARIO IS 13.0%
http://www.ups.com/c..._clearance.html - UPS CLEARANCE IS $78.50
http://www.diamondid...policy.cfm#ship - $50 MINIMUM TO CANADA ($50 is to Hawaii, not even international)
http://www.wholesalediamonds.ca/faq - LIFETIME TRADE UP AND OTHER PROGRAMS

IF YOU TAKE ALL OF THESE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MEANS WOULD NEED TO PAY AROUND $1900 FROM THE STATES TO COMPARE.
1900+6.5%= 2023.50
2023.50+78.50 = 2102.00
2102.00+50.00 = 2152.00
2152.00+13% = 2431.76

IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF???????? OR DO YOU WANT MORE??????????

It is proof of nothing. And you don't need to shout. And you should learn to keep your temper. And you should do your homework.

Duty is only payable on finished articles of jewellery.

Shipping is payable, incidentally at roughly the same rate whether you ship US-Canada, Canada-US or US-US. And most retailers don't charge for that anyway.

Sales tax is payable regardless of whether you get the item shipped from the US or from Ontario or elsewhere in Canada (either as GST/HST or Usage Tax)

[davidelevi]

Diamond Deals, on 02 March 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Sorry for the CAPS lock. I have nothing to do with any company as you can see by my experience posting. I am actually looking myself and when I went on the site to compare for myself I saw how good my price was. Then I looked and saw they are from the Canada. Having family in Canada I know what a pain it is to ship to them.

For someone like me that is looking for a deal on diamonds I want to know where to go, not be strayed by a biased opinion pretending he's not. I will admit that the prices on all of the sites mentionned here are good, including UnionDiamond.com, DiamondIdeals.com, and BroadwayDiamonds.com. I just hate how they try to put one over the other based on one comparison, then they try to say the buyer didnt get a deal without doing their homework first.

It's just not right that people should be allowed to play politics in such an important decision in others lives. This isn't a pack of gum, this is thousands of dollars. That's why I'm trying to tell people what I've learned over the past 3 months of looking - comparison the type of certificate offered, compared each certificate line by line, call to verify if you don't know or are unsure, find out the true cost to get it to your door.

That's all I have to say, and if anyone disagrees with this post then it's said to say, but I've learned more in the past 3 months than each poster has learned in their entire career - Sad, but true.

That's a more reasonable tone. Thank you for moderating yourself. Now, to take your points in order:

1. If you bothered to look at my signature and profile, you'd notice I'm here representing a diamond retailer. Not one of the three above. Not one that you mentioned, and probably even know. Now, tell me this: why on Earth should I promote a competitor's business against another competitor? The only reason why I picked one example was precisely to do that - provide an example. I could have provided you with an example I have in house, but would that be credible? Hardly. And I don't stock EGL stones (or I re-grade if small) on principle.

2. I am in full agreement with you that it is necessary to be careful and that details matter. But since one of the criticism that can be levelled at the famous Canadian retailer is precisely that of not providing enough details for a fair comparison, it's a bit of a hollow call in this case.

3. As to knowing or learning in 3 months more than "each poster has learned in their entire career", I'd be very careful. You have already demonstrated to the world at large that you make rash assumptions and incorrect statements. Don't keep at it.

For example, I did not EVER say that the OP didn't get a deal. I called him to task on a number of other issues, which he has not seen fit to reply to, and primarily on his assertion that the retailer object of this thread has competitive prices across the board. They don't.

Edited by davidelevi, 02 March 2011 - 12:35 PM.

[Diamond Deals]

He paid a total of $2500 - that's what he said. If he had to buy it anywhere else that was mentioned, to get it to his door he would have to spend $2000 (assuming he purchased loose and saved 6.5%) Is $2000 not a good price?

[Diamond Deals]

Here is what was said a few posts ago -

--------------------------------------------------

Quote

I have to say that if the customer paid $2500 total for a .95ct, SI2, F including the 6-7% extras and the 10-15% tax that Canadians have to pay then he got a STEAL!

No he did not. There's at least 20 stones with similar characteristics listed on this engine (and more listed on others) at that price for an EGL graded stone.

---------------------------------------------------

When I type in the characteristics above into diamond finder I get 1 EGL stone for $2398. Plus, at a minimum; shipping ($50), tax (13%), brokerage ($75). He paid $2500 total - still hundreds cheaper (over 20%).

Edited by Diamond Deals, 02 March 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[LaurieH]

I just have to wonder why you're lobbying so hard for this company. It's one thing to say "hey I found information" it's another to sound like you're carrying a torch for them. FWIW, I don't work for any of these companies. I don't favour any of these companies. I have no horse in this race. I just want people to get good information and be happy with their purchases and not get taken for a ride.

I'm thrilled that the original poster got a diamond he's happy with and feels like he got a good deal for it. But what a couple folks have shown is that they were not able to reproduce the same results on their search. And at least one doesn't have a horse in this race either--he's a consumer from everything I've gathered, and the other one chose neutral examples.

We don't know diddly about the company from personal experience, so why would you take it as us bashing them? It was simply pointing things out from their own research POV--they could not search similar specs and come up with a "great deal" by comparison to other companies that we DO know something about. It's not bashing, it's not hating on, it's just stating observations and asking that people not take one poster's experience as gospel. Every consumer needs to still do their homework when it comes to their own diamond purchase.