19 replies to this topic

[maude]

Hi, I ended up buying an art deco ring from the 1930's hallmarked Tiffany & co on one side and irid plat on the other. The ring is beautiful but has an extremely thin shank at the bottom of the ring. It is a delicate ring that is thin to begin with but the bottom is very very thin and you can see if was probably sized and thinned out.
There is engraving that you can see is stretched out.

I bought this from an ebay seller who also has a jewelry store and is a reputible seller.

My question - the pictures did not show how thin the bottom of the ring is. My husband communicated with the seller about this. He asked about trying to get the bottom as thick as the rest of the ring without losing the tiffany & co hallmark. (It was a best offer auction and I paid more ring because it is a tiffany). The seller offered to put a partial shank from the tiffany stamp down. That would make the thickness of the entire ring the same. Is this a recommended repair or will this make the ring more prone to breakage? Also do you think putting a partial shank will make the ring look right or will it look like it was repaired. Does this type of repair usually blend in with the rest of the ring for a ring this old? Am I trying to repair something that shouldn't be repaired. He offered to do the repair or take the ring back. Also will the stone need to be removed to do this

Can the bottom of the ring have platinum added without replacing the shank. Would an experienced person who works on antique rings be able to do that or is that proper way to make the bottom part thicker?

Thank you!

[davidelevi]

You have two issues here - one is the fragility of the shank (but you'd be surprised how thin platinum can get and remain perfectly strong and usable), the other is preserving the Tiffany & Co mark. It sounds like you are lucky on the second one, in as much as the mark is up on the shoulders or at least off the thin area.

Please take the following with a pinch of salt; I haven't seen the ring and I am not a bench jeweller.

You might reinforce the shank by soldering two wires in parallel to the whole ring - that would be the only way to "add metal to the shank" without replacing the shank itself; you cannot add metal directly to the bottom - but that would look like a dog's breakfast and I would only recommend it if the shank had something particularly valuable on it (and even then: there comes a point when one has to make a choice between treating a piece of jewellery as a piece of jewellery to be worn or an unwearable museum-quality antique)

However:

1. The dealer seems to be treating you as well as it could be expected.
2. Replacing a worn out shank is perfectly feasible by a skilled bench jeweller, and if the dealer specialises in old pieces he/she should know someone skilled. If there no intricate engraving on the shank itself you run a small risk that the "hand" on the engraving will show difference, but...
3. The bottom of the shank is one of the least visible parts of a ring - as long as the job looks neat, it's unlikely someone is going to inspect the ring for proof of repair unless you are reselling it.
4. Precisely because it would be the bottom of the shank to be replaced, it will acquire a patina from use much quicker than any other part, so it will blend in very quickly.

[davidelevi]

Oh, and where are the photos?

You thought you'd get away on that one, didn't you?

Best wishes for Christmas and New Year - whatever you celebrate.

[maude]

These are the pictures from the auction. The stone is a little lighter than it shows. From looking at them you will able able to tell the area that is thin.

[maude]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well. Thank you very much for the advice!

[LaurieH]

I know it would probably not be a cheap way to go, but since you're especially concerned about having that Tiffany hallmark remain on the ring, what about taking it into Tiffany's (they have stores at some posh malls around the country) and seeing if they have a jeweler that would re-shank it for you and would have the authority to replace the Tiffany & Co hallmark?

But if you are concerned about it being thin, at least reshanking the part that is especially fragile is the way to go. Does it weaken the ring--sort of. Anytime you break a solid thing and repair it, you're compromising it to some degree, but if it's well done, it should not be of any concern. A thin shank can break on its own, as well, from wear and tear, and people are much harder on rings than they ever realize. Just think how much you do with your hands and how quickly you grab a phone receiver or door handle, etc, so the point opposite the stone is going to take the brunt of those blows.

It's a beautiful ring and good luck with it, no matter which direction you go!

Happy holidays and congrats!

[maude]

Thank you Laurie,

I think I am going to try to work this out with the seller. I am going to see if he will be able to keep the tiffany hallmark and that it is a smooth repair. I don't want it to have lines on the inside or outside that show the cut. I don't know if I am expecting too much.

I wanted to ask a little more advice.

If I have him do the repair I think I need to ask him to warranty it. What is a reasonable request on this? I know he is awesome standing behind his product. I debated on keeping the ring and letting it go but it is so thin I think it would be a matter of time before it breaks or bends. Also he is willing to fix it now and if I let it go I will have the expense later on. Would he need to use the same mix of irid & Plat or could he just use whatever platinum mix they use now?

I wish I didn't like this ring so much I would just send it back and start over:) I know that still might happen but I am hoping this can be worked out.

I am going to wait to see if anyone has any additional thoughts on this before I communicate with him.

Edited by maude, 21 December 2010 - 03:40 PM.

[davidelevi]

Usually in old items Irid/Plat means 10% Iridium and 90% Platinum, which is a standard alloy still in use today (although many people now use 50 Ir 950 Pt, which is softer but better for casting). It should be replaced using the same alloy, but there is no way you can verify whether this is the case until wear sets in (and even then, you'd need some nifty metallurgical analysis). The join should be invisible with the naked eye, though it may well be visible with a loupe (or to a trained eye).

BTW - it doesn't seem a terribly thin shank on the photos. I can see an area of thinning possibly corresponding to a sizing cut, but it seems to be perfectly wearable to me. It is an item which is now nearly 100 years old, and it has been worn - it's part of its charm, which is considerable, BTW. Incidentally - how was the centre stone described? Fancy light yellow? It's a lovely colour. Thank you for the photos.

At this point I may ask the dealer for an unlimited warranty (as in: you will fix this if and when it breaks), rather than getting things repaired right now.

Edited by davidelevi, 21 December 2010 - 05:32 PM.

[maude]

The color is fancy light yellow. I looked at fancy yellow and fancy intense yellow in person and took a chance by ordering this online and feel that the color is perfect for me. I like that it looks totally different during the day, inside under regular light and under Fluorescent lights. After getting it I did go peek in the jewelry store to compare and make sure I made the right decision. The diamonds locally were set yellow baskets and they look nice with modern style rings but for an old ring it looks better in the platinum.

Thank you for the suggestion. I am going to call him in the next couple of days and see how the conversation goes and figure out what is going to work best for both of us.

[davidelevi]

It's a really nice ring, both design and centre stone.

Please keep us posted on how things evolve.

[maude]

I have an update on my ring. I was bothered by the thiness of the bottom and I think it bothered my husband more. It was his birthday gift to me. As I discussed he contacted the jeweler and they offered to replace it with a partial shank. I thought we should have him look at it instead of trying to do it by email. We sent the ring back to him. He called today and said he agrees the shank is very thin. He says he is going to have a skilled jewler build a shank and it will taper from around 1.6 to 1.8 on the bottom to the side which is 1.4. I wish I had measured the ring but I would guess the top is around the thickess of the 1.8 or so right by the diamond. I think it will have a natural look and he says I will not lose the two hallmarks. He says if I am not happy with it he will give me a full refund. I am very happy with this solution and I was bothered too much with the thin shank. It was 1 mm or maybe less in that area from previous sizing. I should get the ring back by the end of next week. He is also including sizing it from a 7 to 7 1/2. That was my other concern it was so thin and to size it more to be on the middle finger next to my engagement ring it would have been way too thin. My original plan was to get it sized up locally to wear it on that finger and if I kept it as is I would have had to wear it on the opposite hand on my second finger.

Once I get it back I will let you know how it comes out.

[LaurieH]

I hope they do a good job with it and that it comes back more beautiful than you remember! Thanks for keeping us updated!

[davidelevi]

Maude - thanks for the update. Given the way this jeweller has been dealing with you, would you not feel comfortable telling others who he/she is? It seems to be a very good outfit, standing behind their merchandise and looking after their customers.

[HeartAndStone]

That's great! That ring must be perfect for your finger!
It's good to discuss issues and immediately act on it, your hubby is so sweet!

[maude]

Thank you. I am glad that he worked it out with them. It is a beautiful ring. The shank was very very thin and looking at photos from a few sites of similar age rings this appeared thinner than others. I was not able to show in photos just how thin it is. I hope he can do what he thinks he can.

Once I get the ring back I will post more on it.

I am hoping to get it back by the end of this week. He also is offering a one week return when I get it so if it does not meet my expectations I can send it back and start over.

[HeartAndStone]

Let's hope for the best!
I can't wait to see a picture of your hand wearing that lovely vintage ring!

[maude]

I got my ring back yesterday. At first I was dissapointed. The outside looks great, the inside is obvious that it was worked on. The hallmarks were not supposed to be affected and they were. That was my big concern and I brought it up a few times before they did the work and I was assured the tiffany hallmark would not be affected. I even got a call from the owner left on my phone the ring was ready and it looks perfect. Maybe that was the best that could be done to get the bottom thicker.

Of course I am back to a 7 days return policy. Oh NO more time to think about it:) I am probably going to keep it. It is a lovely ring and it is not like I look on the inside.

I am so bad at taking pictures. Once I get my 14 year old to help me I will have to post this ring and also the tacori you helped me with in October.

[HeartAndStone]

Hi maude!

Oh dear that Tiffany hallmark...
But that's the right attitude, your ring is beautiful and you don't have to explain why..
Let's say, you're just lucky.
If that ring fits perfectly, there's no room for any disappointment.
It's time to flaunt it and enjoy your gift!

[LaurieH]

Sorry that you lost that Hallmark--but again, maybe talk to Tiffany's! They might be able to re-do it for you. Otherwise, glad the ring turned out better--and wearable--and can't wait til you're able to take a pic of it to share

[maude]

The hallmark is still there just not perfect like it was. Honestly I was probably over analyzing it. It is a wonderful ring and if looking at it someone would probably assume it is that way due to age. Also it was not wearable the way it was. It didn't look right.

Once I get my son to help me (he's 14 and so much better with electronics than I am) I will have to try to post some pics of it on. I am so bad with trying to get them online. I have it on my third finger aside of the tacori you guys helped me with in October. They look wonderful together.

Again I know I was overreacting on the dissapointment. You can still tell it is tiffany and platinum. I am not surprised that to get the original thickness that would have to have been slightly affected.