30 replies to this topic

[diamond noob]

So last week I went to a jeweler I was recommended to go to from a friend. I've been reading up on this site on things to look for/research/etc, but in the moments I was in the store I completely froze! I went against everything I've learned here/other places. I wound up with a 1.82 ct G SI2 EGLUSA for $9300 AND THE LAMINATE ISN'T EVEN IN YET. I can't believe I actually let myself do all of this after all I learned but I felt like I was underpressure (all put on myself -- the jeweler is great and very supportive). I only put down a $200 deposit on the diamond and the setting (which I know i'm keeping) which is good since it means I'm not locked in yet.

My concerns on the EGLUSA are if it really is a SI2 (the inclusions were extremely obvious under a loupe, although it did appear eye clean to my untrained eyes). And I don't think I could live with purchasing a diamond with an EGL cert.

I've sinced freaked out and told the jeweler to not mount the diamond. And that I really wanted to look at these two.

Choice 1: $11,300
Choice 2: $11,100

Let me know what you guys think about these. I'm leaning towards choice 1 (only $200 more for .13ct more!. yeah its an H instead of a G, but it also has better polish/symmetry, and I also like that the girdle is faceted). I also wanted to get your opinions on AGS Excellent Cuts.

Thank you all in advance. I really appreciate all the insight you guys give and am so thankful a forum like this exists!





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Edited by diamond noob, 25 October 2010 - 01:47 PM.

[jan]

I think I would opt for a slightly smaller stone and higher clarity if it were me. Maybe something more like this one. The other ones look like that have quite a bit in them. Just thought you might want to at least get an eye clean diamond since you are spending over $10,000.

http://www.dbof.com/...-1-55-ct-si1-h/

[diamond noob]

I was under the impression that SI2 grade was considered eye clean?

Is it the amount of markings that has you worried with these two?

[denverappraiser]

SI2 is considered eye clean by whom?

The problem is that 'eye clean' includes elements like the lighting environment, the observers vision, the amount of time they spend looking at it, whether they know what they're looking for and even what they had for breakfast. It's NOT part of the grading standards. Yes, there are eye clean SI2s, but there are eye visible VS2's. If 'eye clean' is your standard and you're trying to make the determination without actually including any eyes in the process(either yours, your dealers or your appraiser) then you're pushing the limit.

The amount of ink on the map isn't a valid test either. Actually look at the stone(s), and buy from someone who can actually look at them. That gives you 2 sets of eyes. If you're still nervous, get an independent appraiser involved.

Edited by denverappraiser, 27 October 2010 - 07:22 AM.

[diamond noob]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I read this in an article from this site:

"Many people make clarity the least important of the 4 Cs when purchasing their diamonds. The reason for this is simple -- why spend a lot of money on a VVS1 diamond when an SI2 will look exactly the same to the naked eye?"

and figured clarity would be an area I would go lower in, in order to get the size I wanted (1.7ct +) with an Ideal or Excellent cut grade (to maximize sparkle). and to stay in my budget (10-11k)

I am going to look at these in person on Friday.

Edited by diamond noob, 25 October 2010 - 02:26 PM.

[davidelevi]

The "problem" is - as Neil explains - that VVS1 or SI2 are relatively objective standards, evaluated on the basis of the presence of certain inclusions, not (primarily) on the basis of their visibility to an observer in arbitrary conditions. "Eye clean" means not blatantly obvious when set to some sellers, and it means totally invisible when loose to some buyers...

If you read the phrase you quoted as ...a (given) VVS1 diamond when an(other given) SI2 will look the same... it is probably less ambiguous.

Edited by davidelevi, 25 October 2010 - 02:30 PM.

[diamond noob]

So are you saying I should show some caution about the 1.85ct? Or avoid it all together?

Do you think I am not getting the best performance for my parameters? (Want 1.7ct or more, 10k-11.5k budget for the diamond)

[davidelevi]

I don't see anything that makes me favour one stone or the other. If the dealer has them or is prepared to call them in, that's the best test you can possibly have (as long as you can see the stones in a variety of lighting environments), and it's many times better than anyone here guessing what they look like from a report.

All we (Jan, Neil and I) are saying is that whereas a VS1 clarity or above guarantees that you get an eye-clean stone under any circumstances, VS2 and below aren't guarantees of an observer being unable to see the inclusions in some cases. Depending on how important that is to you, decide whether to see these two stones or pass; if you want my personal opinion, I tend to agree with the spirit of the statement you quoted (I'd rather spend the money on cut, size or colour than clarity).

Edited by davidelevi, 25 October 2010 - 02:50 PM.

[jan]

diamond noob, on 25 October 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

Thanks for the responses so far.

I read this in an article from this site:

"Many people make clarity the least important of the 4 Cs when purchasing their diamonds. The reason for this is simple -- why spend a lot of money on a VVS1 diamond when an SI2 will look exactly the same to the naked eye?"

and figured clarity would be an area I would go lower in, in order to get the size I wanted (1.7ct +) with an Ideal or Excellent cut grade (to maximize sparkle). and to stay in my budget (10-11k)

I am going to look at these in person on Friday.

In a stone of this size, may times the stone stone is not eye clean in an SI2 stone. Each individual diamond is different but from looking at the plots that you put up of the other two stones, I would doubt that they are eye clean. They looked like rather large inclusions and centrally located.

[diamond noob]

Fair enough.

I am also going to look at a 2.02ct, J, SI1, Ideal cut, AGS for $11,870 (which I hope to negotiate down $500 if I like it)...

But in more news, I received some new things I'd like to share with you guys.

He sent the cert on the original EGLUSA diamond which is here:



He also sent two pics of the ring set (even though he knows I'm coming in to look at a few more diamonds:






The whole ring kinda looks yellow/tinted to me, but I'm not sure if thats because of the camera/flash. It is supposed to be 14k White Gold.



Any further thoughts/comments?

Edited by diamond noob, 26 October 2010 - 11:40 AM.

[davidelevi]

Need to see it; although like you I can see the tint in the photos it may be lighting or camera calibration.

[HeartAndStone]

Wow!

I love the setting, if it so happen that the stone is a bit yellowish, it's still gorgeous!
Maybe you can check our "FindMyJeweler" tool, and see other credible jeweler around your area.

[SharonReid]

Hello All

Have been going through the series of posts for the last couple of days, and feel passionate about adding a word or two.

First things first - If a diamond shows up inclusions, it needs changing. As simple as that, especially if you are able to detect them. Normally a SI2 clarity diamond shouldn't show up inclusions on naked eye (The term, eye-clean needs changing), and if that is the case, move to the VVS range.

As for the price and the kind of diamond you seem to have selected, if it works for you, it works.

I have attached a Round Brilliant Cut of 1.83 carat. The only difference to your specifications is that the polish and symmetry are Very Good. Anyways, polish and symmetry dont figure in the 4Cs, so I guess, you may not want to pay a lot of attention to it.

The price of the diamond that I have attached works out in the range of $8,600 (Much cheaper than what some suggestions seem to come here)

Do let me know though if you have questions.

Sharon Reid
Certified Gemologist
[url="http://B2CJewels.com"]B2CJewels[/url]
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/VISHWA%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/VISHWA%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[jan]

I wouldn't spend that kind of cash on an EGL graded diamond. Stick to AGS or GIA.

[denverappraiser]

Hi Sharon,

Welcome to the forum.

I disagree with a few of your points but since they're tangential to the topic I'll leave them alone, but the link you've given for the stone you proposed as an alternative is invalid and a 'sample' photo is pointless. You can post links directly to ads on your website or you can upload scans, photos and the like to the server here but what you've got doesn't work. The two stones being considered in this discussion are both AGS graded. The EGL is just what's currently in the mounting (is that correct Noob?). What't the pedigree of yours?

Edited by denverappraiser, 27 October 2010 - 08:31 AM.

[diamond noob]

Yup thats correct Denver.

To throw in another twist to the story, I called up a different store that has the following diamond in for $10,800. May take the setting from jeweler #1 and the diamond from jeweler #2.

Here are the details:




I think this may be the one

(Also, thanks HeartAndStone! )

Edited by diamond noob, 27 October 2010 - 10:10 AM.

[jan]

That stone looks like a better cut if you don't mind the J color. That will all depend on how color sensitive that you are. Did you see the stone in person?

There is another stone that is the same color, clarity cut grade, weight etc but runs alot less. Ask your jeweler if he can get you the one with the most competitive price.It's about 12% less. I took a look at the plot and it looked really clean.

Edited by jan, 27 October 2010 - 12:43 PM.

[jan]

Also it might be better if you purchase both the setting and stone from the same place. That setting can be purchased at most jewelers. I know that I see the same one in one of our catalogs that we can make.

[diamond noob]

Haven't seen it in person yet.

I have seen a J color diamond before (of my recently engaged friend) and I wouldn't have guessed it was a J at all. It's beautiful (1.70ct, J, VS1, VG cut - GIA).

Going to see this one in person Saturday.

Where are you seeing the "same" diamond for less?

Edited by diamond noob, 27 October 2010 - 01:23 PM.

[davidelevi]

If you use the "Diamond Finder" at the top of the page you find it here...

http://www.idjewelry...php?id=28372841

It seems the same stone, which means it's probably a stone on a shared list. Check with the other jeweller and see if it is available, or just advertised - the fact that they have it on their website does not mean they can get it. Also, the fact that the other jeweller is local to you does have some value.