22 replies to this topic

[proposalguy]

Hello everyone

I have just bought the below diamond and would be really grateful for any comments/thoughts (I can easily return the stone if there is something "wrong" with it's spec. Not being an expert, I thought I'd ask if anyone thinks there are any particular weak points or if I should consider compromising on one aspect for an improvement in another.

Princess cut, 0.91 carat
5.35x5.30x3.85mm
E colour
VS2 clarity (cloud, crystal)
Polish - v good
Symmetery - v good
Florescence - none
Girdle - slightly thick to thick
Table 68%
Depth 72.7%
Culet - none

Thanks very much guys.

[LaurieH]

Princess cut, 0.91 carat --good size
5.35x5.30x3.85mm -- good on square
E colour -- can't go wrong
VS2 clarity (cloud, crystal) -- can't go wrong--eye clean face up, unaided
Polish - v good -- can't go wrong
Symmetery - v good --can't go wrong
Florescence - none -- neutral/good-- some fluor isn't bad, but since you're in the colourless category, less is more
Girdle - slightly thick to thick -- good--you don't want the girdle too thin, because then you risk potentially chipping/fracture at the thinnest point of the diamond (the girdle being the thinnest point), but you're not tying up extra weight where the diamond is the widest, so you're well within the ideal range)
Table 68% --good--nice "flash)
Depth 72.7% --good
Culet - none

overall vote--2 sparkly thumbs up!

[jan]

proposalguy, on 01 October 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

Hello everyone

I have just bought the below diamond and would be really grateful for any comments/thoughts (I can easily return the stone if there is something "wrong" with it's spec. Not being an expert, I thought I'd ask if anyone thinks there are any particular weak points or if I should consider compromising on one aspect for an improvement in another.

Princess cut, 0.91 carat
5.35x5.30x3.85mm
E colour
VS2 clarity (cloud, crystal)
Polish - v good
Symmetery - v good
Florescence - none
Girdle - slightly thick to thick
Table 68%
Depth 72.7%
Culet - none

Thanks very much guys.

The "numbers" are o.k. Do you have a photo of the stone? How you do you like it?

[bhavatmaj]

Hi,
Your Diamond seems to fine enough in carat, cutting, and color. If you would had mentioned the price at which you bought, we could provide more detailed comments.
in any way I will give 7/10

proposalguy, on 01 October 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

Hello everyone

I have just bought the below diamond and would be really grateful for any comments/thoughts (I can easily return the stone if there is something "wrong" with it's spec. Not being an expert, I thought I'd ask if anyone thinks there are any particular weak points or if I should consider compromising on one aspect for an improvement in another.

Princess cut, 0.91 carat
5.35x5.30x3.85mm
E colour
VS2 clarity (cloud, crystal)
Polish - v good
Symmetery - v good
Florescence - none
Girdle - slightly thick to thick
Table 68%
Depth 72.7%
Culet - none

Thanks very much guys.

[proposalguy]

I don't have a pic I'm afraid. It looks amazing in every respect, but then I've only ever seen a handful of diamonds.

The only "problem" is that I can just about make out the 2 tiny inclusions when looking through the pavillion, from a side view. They are absolutely tiny but definitely visible. From top down ie looking through the face there is no way you can see them, but from side on it's a different story.

I guess you can't get a diamond that's eye clean from all angles unless you seriously go up in price bracket. I'm just a bit disappointed as I naively interpreted "eye clean" as eye clean from all angles, I didn't realise graders (this ones GIA) only based clarity on a top down view.

[proposalguy]

Hi Bhavatmaj

I paid £3155 for the stone, Inc vat and including platinum band. Having shopped around online and in Hatton Garden stores, I think I got a good deal. Similar rings (by spec) are on sale in the shops for between £3800 and £4500.

I got an insurance appraisal with the ring, this came in at £6310, however it is from the jeweller who sold me it so I'm pretty cynical...should I get an "independent" appraisal too? I wonder how they came up with this number, is it just a "feel good" factor ie they're trying to convince me that they've given me a bargain price?

I've just had a look at a couple of high street stores' websites and for £6000 they're selling utter rubbish in comparison!

Thanks again

[davidelevi]

The question is what do you need to do with the appraisal.

If you need if for insurance purposes, take into account that you can get a similar stone online for $3200-4200 depending on the details of cut, finish and fluorescence; add in VAT at 20% (unless you plan to lose the ring between now and the end of the year...) and shipping, and you are looking at ~£3500 for the stone. A platinum band goes for anything between £300 and £700 (or more!) depending on thickness and quality of work, so the Hatton Gardens prices seem reasonable as a "replacement value". You run the risk of overinsuring if you do buy insurance based on the "appraisal".

If what you want is to know more about the stone and its "true" qualities, I'd get an independent appraisal; Eric Emms is a very good guy in London; don't know if he still does lab work, but at worst he may recommend someone else. However it's unlikely to be "worth" anything in monetary terms (and any savings on the insurance you can get by insuring based on the receipt value, not the appraisal)

If all you need is a warm and fuzzy feeling that you have got yourself a good deal, the current paper is more than adequate.

[proposalguy]

Thanks very much. I've emailed Eric so hopefully I can get an appraisal from him.

Regarding the visible inclusions, is there a clarity grade that would "guarantee" no eye visible inclusions from ANY angle? If it's perfectly normal for a vs2 to have inclusions that are visible from the side/bottom, then I'll live with it... But i'm a bit worried I've got a "duff" vs2!

[denverappraiser]

proposalguy, on 03 October 2010 - 06:50 AM, said:

Thanks very much. I've emailed Eric so hopefully I can get an appraisal from him.

Regarding the visible inclusions, is there a clarity grade that would "guarantee" no eye visible inclusions from ANY angle? If it's perfectly normal for a vs2 to have inclusions that are visible from the side/bottom, then I'll live with it... But i'm a bit worried I've got a "duff" vs2!

Clarity grading in the GIA system is done from the face up position only. If you need it to be 'eye clean' from other positions, you can certainly hire a grader to do that but it is using a different scale in addition to the GIA one.

[proposalguy]

Thank you. I guess i just wonder whether it's 'normal' for a vs2 to have eye visible inclusions from side/bottom views. If most don't, then I'll be tempted to look at others.

Bhavatmaj, is there any particular reason why you give the stone 7/10 based on numbers? What would you like to see improved?

Thanks

[proposalguy]

Are there likely to be visible inclusions (side or bottom view) on a VVS1 or VVS2 princess diamond?

[barry]

Absolutely NO!

VVS-1 and VVS-2 are a microscopic pinpoint visible at 50-60X magnification.

[proposalguy]

Thanks Barry. I'm just really surprised that these 2 inclusions are so visible on a VS2 (GIA) stone. Surely the inclusions can't be THAT much bigger? I can see these quite easily at 12 inches, like 2 small pieces of glitter suspended in an otherwise perfect diamond.

Question is, am I prepared to spend the extra ££ to guarantee an eye clean stone from all angles - what clarity do I need to go for in order to guarantee that?

Thanks

[barry]

proposalguy, on 04 October 2010 - 09:44 AM, said:

Thanks Barry. I'm just really surprised that these 2 inclusions are so visible on a VS2 (GIA) stone. Surely the inclusions can't be THAT much bigger? I can see these quite easily at 12 inches, like 2 small pieces of glitter suspended in an otherwise perfect diamond.

Question is, am I prepared to spend the extra ££ to guarantee an eye clean stone from all angles - what clarity do I need to go for in order to guarantee that?

Thanks

Face up? Or profile?

If it's face up, go to VS-1. Fact is there is variability in VS's but in the main they are super eye-clean.

Profile view should not be a factor as once the diamond is set, a profile view is obscured by the setting.

[proposalguy]

Profile only - face-up is absolutely perfect, definitely can't see it.

Problem is the setting doesn't obscure the profile view - I have chosen the following setting:

[url="http://www.qualitydiamonds.co.uk/Setting.aspx?code=P_H_MTSS-0568_P"][url]http://www.qualitydiamonds.co.uk/Setting.aspx?code=P_H_MTSS-0568_P[/url][/url]

If you look at the third image down, you can see how the whole thing is on show like a fish tank! Obviously when it's on her finger they can't be seen unless you look for them...

I suppose I could go for a different setting, but in any case I'm just surprised the inclusions are SO visible (maybe I just have eagle eyes).

[barry]

I don't believe anyone will get that close to her finger to notice those inclusions...if they do you have a bigger problem than the inclusions.

I would suggest you either try other VS-2's where you can not see the inclusion(s)or go up to a VS-1.

[denverappraiser]

barry, on 04 October 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:

Absolutely NO!

VVS-1 and VVS-2 are a microscopic pinpoint visible at 50-60X magnification.

Barry,

I disagree. A stone with an inclusion that is ONLY visible from the side could quite reasonably be graded in the VVS range. Theoretically this would even apply to Flawless although I can't really imagine such a stone. Visibility from the side is simply not one of the attributes considered in setting the clarity grade using the GIA scale. There is no clarity grade for this threshold because it's not one of the attributes of clarity. It's hard to imagine such a stone, but it's not precluded by definition.

[barry]

Neil;

I hear what you're saying regarding the "theoretical" aspect of the protocol grading/definition and profile visual in a GIA graded VVS.

But I was answering proposalguy from the practical standpoint; in my over 30 years in this diamond business I have never, ever seen a GIA graded VVS where the microscopic inclusion could be actually seen from the side profile without very high magnification.

Have a great day!

[proposalguy]

Thanks everyone. Looks like I've sparked quite a debate!

So the bottom line is, if I don't want to see inclusions from a side or bottom view, I have to "upgrade" to vvs.

Oh, decisions.

[barry]

Not necessarily.

VS-1 might do the trick for you.

And again, I don't believe anyone will venture to or can get that close and parallel to your setting to note the inclusions from the side.

Edited by barry, 04 October 2010 - 01:26 PM.