9 replies to this topic

[WantToPropose]

Hello everyone,

I am planning to propose to my girlfriend. For this special occassion, I'm now looking for the perfect engagement ring. I've educated myself a bit about diamonds, but I was hoping you guys could help me a bit more.

Some important comments:
1* I live in Europe, so the online shop should provide shipping to the EU. I think buying online will be significantly cheaper (and probably better quality too) than in a B&M store.
2* my gf is allergic to (white) gold, so the ring should be platinum
3* in my country, we don't really have the tradition to shell out a lot of money for an engagement ring (compared to the $5k+ I often see from American people): prices vary from < $100 to a couple of k max, but I think the average would be in the $400-$1400 range. I do want to give her something special, with real diamonds, so based on the prices I find on the internet, I think I want to spend something in the €2.5k-3k range (so like $4k max, preferably a bit less).
4* she already mentioned she would like the ring to be shiny and eye-catching.

Based on 3* and 4*, I went into the direction of three stone rings: they allow me to get a bigger amount of ct (and thus 'shinyness') for less money (I found that 0.59 + 0.30 + 0.30 costs less than one 0.70ct stone). Apart from that, I think that these rings look better than the 1 stone rings I could afford (a simple band with a 0.73ct stone): they give me more the feeling of a 'complete and finished jewel' compared to simply 'a nice stone on a simple ring'. Thoughts on this are always welcome.

The design I came up with, is the following:
[URL][url]http://be.bluenile.co.uk/build-your-own-three-stone-ring?override=1&pid=LD01241904&offer_id=16514&pid=LD01257445&pid=LD01257582&ring_size=I&forceStep=BASKET_STEP[/url][/URL]

The total carat weight of diamonds for your ring is 1.42.
* Ideal-cut, H-colour, VS2-clarity, Round, 0.59-carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01241904 EUR 1,112
* Ideal-cut, G-colour, SI2-clarity, Round, 0.30-carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01257445 EUR 281
* Ideal-cut, G-colour, SI2-clarity, Round, 0.30-carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01257582 EUR 281
* Three-Stone Pavé Diamond Ring in Platinum. Stock #: 16514 EUR 1,225

What do you think about this ring:
- Quality of the stones. I think the 4C-values are good, but maybe the other properties are not that great (table, girdle, ...)
- How the stones will look together regarding size, shinyness, ...
- Thoughts on the 'pavé' setting? I think it looks better than a plain one, but maybe this is too much 'shinyness' (is this even possible ?)
- I could replace the center stone with a slightly smaller one:
Ideal-cut, G-colour, VS2-clarity, Round, 0.46-carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01257516 EUR 692
(this one also has 'excellent' polish, vs 'very good' for the bigger one)
Does the price difference (€400 VAT excluded) warrant the bigger size? What would look best?
- Other thoughts?

If anyone has real examples of rings such as this one, that would be great. A real photo probably shows more than the images on the blue nile website.

If people have alternatives for the ring, stones, vendor (I've read both good things and bad things about Blue Nile), ... please share. My choice is not at all finalized.

Thanks in advance!

[davidelevi]

Wow - long post. Let me try to address your questions/points one at a time.

1) Most dealers will ship to Europe. Just be aware that you will need to pay Customs Duty (0% on loose diamonds; 2.5% on jewellery) plus VAT at the prevailing rate (21% for Belgium, IIRC), plus any custom clearance fees that the courier charges - these can range from a few € to €100. In any case, remember to add about 25% to your ex-USA price (and to Blue Nile's prices too!!!)

2) Platinum not a problem. Except for cost. Beware that a platinum setting of good quality will be expensive, and particularly if you want a ring with pave and intricate metalwork, getting something of quality will spend your whole budget just on the setting. My personal opinion is that you are always better off getting excellent quality in metalwork and side stones at the expense of "flashiness", but there's plenty of people that prefer the opposite.

4) OK. Bear in mind that what will catch people's eyes is not going to be size; at the end of the day, a 0.50 ct and a 0.70 ct will only appear significantly different if you have them right next to each other. What will make a difference is cut. And I would strongly recommend that's where you spend your money!

Three stone vs solitaire - it's a matter of personal preference. I would rather have a solitaire than a three stone, but what you or I prefer matters little. What does your Lady like? Buying her something that YOU think is fantastic but that she doesn't like is not the best recipe. And that goes for the style of the setting as well.

Size and proportions - a rule of thumb for 3 stone rings says that if you want the centre stone to stand out you should have the total weight of the side stones between 1/2 and 1/3 of the centre (i.e. each side 1/4 to 1/6 of centre); those you have picked will make the ring look as if you have three almost equal stones. Not a common look, and not what I would pick. Make sure it's what she would like. Easy simulation is to use Powerpoint to draw the stones to scale 10:1 or so and look at them on the screen. Same for the centre stone; you are unlikely to see much difference between a 0.46 and a 0.56 without having the stones next to each other (assuming they are cut equally well), but draw them up in 1:1 scale as circles, and you'll see for yourself. Polish is a total non-issue.

Cut - unless you have particular reasons to trust Blue Nile's evaluation of cut, I'd ask myself what other information you have. Blue Nile never sees the stone, and it seems to use a very simplistic assessment based on a few proportion ratios it gleans from the report. It's OK as a first screen, but not a good strategy if you have 20%+ VAT and customs formalities to see the stone, just to decide you don't like it.

Pave - see point 2) above. It can look great, but it can look crap - and well made pave is expensive because it requires a lot of work. It also adds fragility to the ring - pave stones can work themselves loose; is your fiancée very active/sporty? If so, I would not recommend using pave.

Vendor - See above. The significant advantage of Blue Nile is the price, which is very competitive indeed. However, in your case, with significant transaction costs, I'd choose someone who can actually see the stone, the metalwork and the whole ring and help you through the process. There's plenty of people that can offer that service at a highly competitive price.

I hope this helps; please keep posting questions.

[WantToPropose]

Davide,
thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I realise my OP was quite lengthy, but I had a few detailed questions I wanted to get across.
Regarding your answers, I have the following questions/comments:

1) In the meantime I found out that it could be better (and possibly even cheaper) to buy the ring in Antwerp (after all, thé diamond city ). I initially forfaited that idea because I had read a lot of horror stories about crooked shops there, but I think I found a thrustworty (wholesale) company that I can work with.

2) I realise the higher cost of platinum settings, but I have no choice given her allergy. I may drop the pavé part if the total cost turns out to be too high or if it doesn't look good (given that I'll now actually see the diamonds before buying).

3) I understand the importance of cut, that's why I always chose "Ideal-Cut" diamonds on the Blue Nile website. I'll make this clear to the B&M seller too.

Three stone vs solitaire I'm obviously trying to find a ring that my gf will love, and I think she would prefer 3 stone over solitaire too. I will try to check this with her to be absolutely sure (any advice on how to do this in a not completely obvious way is always welcome ).

Size and proportions I'll look into these proportions, but it seems I would have to lessen the weight of the side stones, right (I can't really afford to make the center stone bigger)? Again, I'll now be able to see irl what looks good and what doesn't, so that'll help my decision too.
Your simulation advice: do you mean to just draw circles in Powerpoint to compare the sizes? I'll give that a try later today.

Cut Blue Nile apparently provides a GIA report with their diamonds (which I guess also assesses the "cut"?), so how would the assessment not be thrustworty? Not really important anymore, but I'm honestly curious about this.

Pave She's not really sporty, but I appreciate your advice wrt how it looks and what it costs.

Vendor This problem was already solved

Once again, thanks a lot for your very helpful reply. Really appreciate it.

Edited by WantToPropose, 06 September 2010 - 07:42 AM.

[davidelevi]

The issue with cut assessment is that it's not straightforward (actually, the only "C" that is straightforward is Carat weight; the standard there is the same for everybody at 0.2 gram)

GIA will grade round stones using a 5-point scale (Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor), though the vast majority of stones are EX or VG.

AGSL will grade using an 11-point scale 0-10, with 6 verbal categories (Ideal, EX, VG, G, F, P) grouping the points.

Other labs use still different scales, but most importantly there is no common agreed standard as to WHAT is good (or very good, or ideal). Vendors like Blue Nile add to the confusion by using their own scale - the diamonds that you picked were GIA graded - probably graded Excellent cut by GIA, but were called "Ideal cut" by Blue Nile.

On the allergy - bear in mind that the allergy most people have to "white gold" is actually an allergy to nickel. Palladium alloys (and palladium itself) contain no nickel, and may be suitable and a lot cheaper than platinum. I don't particularly like the feel of palladium, but it's an option that I think you should consider.

Be careful on the "wholesale" attribute. By definition, if they are dealing with you, you are not getting wholesale conditions. And they have a lot more info and savvy around diamonds than you (or me!). Again, particularly on cut, make sure you rely on your eyes more than anything that the vendor says, and be sure to look at the diamond in different lighting situations, not just under the spotlights in the store.

[WantToPropose]

davidelevi, on 06 September 2010 - 08:49 AM, said:

The issue with cut assessment is that it's not straightforward (actually, the only "C" that is straightforward is Carat weight; the standard there is the same for everybody at 0.2 gram)

GIA will grade round stones using a 5-point scale (Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor), though the vast majority of stones are EX or VG.

AGSL will grade using an 11-point scale 0-10, with 6 verbal categories (Ideal, EX, VG, G, F, P) grouping the points.

Other labs use still different scales, but most importantly there is no common agreed standard as to WHAT is good (or very good, or ideal). Vendors like Blue Nile add to the confusion by using their own scale - the diamonds that you picked were GIA graded - probably graded Excellent cut by GIA, but were called "Ideal cut" by Blue Nile.

The GIA report indeed shows EX cut (which is the best out of 5 categories, as GIA does not have an "Ideal Cut" categorie) which BN apparently translated to "Ideal Cut" in their own scale (which is 1/5 in their categories, or 2/6 if you include "BN Signature Ideal Cut"). I don't see a particular problem with this conversion (1/5 -> 1/5), but I can understand why it could cause confusion/unreliability.

davidelevi, on 06 September 2010 - 08:49 AM, said:

On the allergy - bear in mind that the allergy most people have to "white gold" is actually an allergy to nickel. Palladium alloys (and palladium itself) contain no nickel, and may be suitable and a lot cheaper than platinum. I don't particularly like the feel of palladium, but it's an option that I think you should consider.

Thanks for the hint, I'll look into it.

davidelevi, on 06 September 2010 - 08:49 AM, said:

Be careful on the "wholesale" attribute. By definition, if they are dealing with you, you are not getting wholesale conditions. And they have a lot more info and savvy around diamonds than you (or me!). Again, particularly on cut, make sure you rely on your eyes more than anything that the vendor says, and be sure to look at the diamond in different lighting situations, not just under the spotlights in the store.

Thanks, I'll be careful and attentive and hope I won't get ripped off. For the record, they told me to base my own price estimate on the professional wholesale diamond prices, so at first sight it seems they're not trying to rip me off too hard.

Thank you once again.

[davidelevi]

Not meaning to confuse you any further, but there is no such thing as the correspondence you are drawing. Many GIA "excellent" cut would not be considered "Ideal" or "Very Good" by AGSL and viceversa (although not to the same extent). The Blue Nile "system" is not published, but given their business model it can be surmised it is based on data on the report, which is NOT sufficient to issue a reliable cut grade for a round, never mind a fancy shape, yet BN has no qualms in "grading" fancy shapes.

Anyway, you won't be buying from Blue Nile, so that's irrelevant - but only if your chosen vendor does not follow the same "almost arbitrary" grading policy.

On prices - again, be careful. Picking your BN centre stone (0.50 - 0.59 H/VS2 GIA), there are over 1000 stones listed for sale on this site under "diamond finder". The price varies from a shade under $900 to just over $1700. This is reflective of the spread on "wholesale" prices - but at which end of the market are you buying? And can you tell the difference between a $1500 stone and a $1000 one?

[HeartAndStone]

Welcome to the forum...

And when are you planning to pop the question., this Christmas?
This is exciting and I'm just curious, but you may ignore my question..
I think Davide was able to answer all your queries
Regarding 3-stone vs. Solitaire, although you said that you think the she'd prefer a three stone .
It's better to share your thoughts, for example if you knew someone who has solitaire e-ring tell her how
much you like that ring, and then weigh things out.
Honestly, It's difficult to read a woman's mind, even if you showed us some pics, we won't be able to take a pick.
But a solitaire can say it all.
Good luck!
Keep us posted as we appreciate any updates..

[WantToPropose]

I have an appointment later this week to check out some stones and rings irl. Very excited for this! I'll try to pay attention to everything I've read the last couple of days, especially the stuff in this topic.

In the meantime, I continued my search for the best design. The vendor agreed smaller side stones would look better; he proposed a 0.6ct center stone and two 0.2 side stones, but maybe they should still get a bit smaller.

I really liked some of the designs on the James Allen website, especially in the category Settings with sidestones ([URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/[/url][/URL]).
I think something like
this: [URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/Platinum-3-Stone-Pave-Set-Ring.html[/url][/URL]

or

this: [URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/Ladies-Platinum-3-Stone-Round-Plus-Ring.html[/url][/URL] (similar ring but channel diamonds instead of pavé)

but with slightly smaller stones would look great (something like this: [URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/18k-White-Gold-3-Stone-Plus-Brilliant-Ring.html[/url][/URL]). What do you think?

I also like the design with two pear-shaped side stones:
[URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/ring/item_58-4150.asp[/url][/URL],
I think it creates a wonderful effect when combined with a nice round center stone (as in the video). The more I look at this design, the more I love it!

This:
[URL][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/ring/item_58-271.asp[/url][/URL] is also a nice design, and maybe something like this would make the center diamond stand out more (even if it's <0.70ct)?

Hm hm tough choices! I am also doing everything I can to get to know what my gf likes without being too obvious.

[rklein]

Congratulations!
If you need any help while in Antwerp let me know - I work for one of the city's polishing factories.
We have smaller ideal-cuts like the ones you mentioned but I will be happy to point you to other reputable diamond houses.
+32497904287

[HeartAndStone]

Hi!

You should really keep in mind those pointers from Davide.
I checked out your choices, visited the category.. and this one really
caught my eye...

right on..

http://www.jamesalle...item_58-486.asp

and this is my favorite...

http://www.jamesalle...ement-Ring.html

I hope you can get some hints whether your gf wants vintage or modern designs.

Good luck!

Cheers!