12 replies to this topic

[BILLWAT]

Everything else being equal for a Princess cut 1 carat would you choose

1) E Color, VVS Clarity

or

2) F Color, IF Clarity

Thanks in advance!

[davidelevi]

The one that is cut better, the one that is larger, the one that is cheaper. In that order of preference for me; YMMV.

You won't see the difference between E/VVS and F/IF once the diamond is set. Literally. Ever.

Incidentally - why did you choose such a high clarity and colour? Do you realise that above SI it will be difficult to locate the inclusions with a 10x loupe never mind your eyes? And that a well cut L can look very white if it's not right next to a less coloured stone?

[HeartAndStone]

Hi.,

If your taste is this high... I think # 2 F IF (GIA cert.) could make you happy. If owning an IF diamond can make feel confident and secured for a very long time, go for it.
Keep us posted! Cheers!

[jan]

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 02:11 AM, said:

Everything else being equal for a Princess cut 1 carat would you choose

1) E Color, VVS Clarity

or

2) F Color, IF Clarity

Thanks in advance!

I would doubt that everything else is equal on the cut of the diamonds. You really didn't put enough info on the post to put an intelligent answer for you. Post more info on the stones such as if they have a GIA lab report, the info from the lab report and we can tell you more.

Edited by jan, 24 July 2010 - 06:37 AM.

[BILLWAT]

jan, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 02:11 AM, said:

Everything else being equal for a Princess cut 1 carat would you choose

1) E Color, VVS Clarity

or

2) F Color, IF Clarity

Thanks in advance!

I would doubt that everything else is equal on the cut of the diamonds. You really didn't put enough info on the post to put an intelligent answer for you. Post more info on the stones such as if they have a GIA lab report, the info from the lab report and we can tell you more.

Carat: 1.02
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.01
Depth %: 69.4%
Table %: 70.0%
Measurements: 5.69x5.66x3.93
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Slightly Thick
Culet: None

Carat: 1.08
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: E
Clarity: VVS1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.00
Depth %: 69.3%
Table %: 71.0%
Measurements: 5.75x5.74x3.98
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None

[jan]

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

jan, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 02:11 AM, said:

Everything else being equal for a Princess cut 1 carat would you choose

1) E Color, VVS Clarity

or

2) F Color, IF Clarity

Thanks in advance!

I would doubt that everything else is equal on the cut of the diamonds. You really didn't put enough info on the post to put an intelligent answer for you. Post more info on the stones such as if they have a GIA lab report, the info from the lab report and we can tell you more.

Carat: 1.02
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.01
Depth %: 69.4%
Table %: 70.0%
Measurements: 5.69x5.66x3.93
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Slightly Thick
Culet: None

Carat: 1.08
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: E
Clarity: VVS1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.00
Depth %: 69.3%
Table %: 71.0%
Measurements: 5.75x5.74x3.98
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None

Do they have GIA lab report or AGS? What site are you getting the info from because if they are not AGS then they are not ideal.

[denverappraiser]

Bill,

The problem, among other things, is in the differing definitions of ‘ideal’ for a princess. I generally avoid using the term entirely because it’s so abused but, to the extent that I do, it has to do with the AGS definitions that are based primarily on the P1 and P2 angles as they relate to the crown angles. What Jan is asking for is a report from a device called a Brilliancescope that claims to demonstrate a stones ‘performance’, whatever that means (Note: I’m not a big fan of this device). In either case, notice that NONE of this information appears in your advertisement.

You’re obviously looking for a fairly high end stone and this goes to a far more fundamental question. What are you hoping to accomplish here? All other things are NOT equal and the usual target is to get the one that’s the prettiest. Not everyone agrees on what that means but it’s important for you, or at least someone you trust to be actually looking at stones rather than just lab reports. To make this worse, I’m guessing by the data you’ve given that the stones in question here weren’t graded by either GIA (who doesn’t use the term ‘ideal’) or AGS (who doesn’t use the term ‘none’ for fluorescence). Grading by an unusual lab doesn’t make them wrong but this raises questions about the clarity and color grading as well and since you’re aiming at the high end it begs the questions of how and why did you choose these particular stones?

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 24 July 2010 - 10:20 AM.

[BILLWAT]

jan, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 01:10 PM, said:

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

jan, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

BILLWAT, on Saturday, Jul 24 2010, 02:11 AM, said:

Everything else being equal for a Princess cut 1 carat would you choose

1) E Color, VVS Clarity

or

2) F Color, IF Clarity

Thanks in advance!

I would doubt that everything else is equal on the cut of the diamonds. You really didn't put enough info on the post to put an intelligent answer for you. Post more info on the stones such as if they have a GIA lab report, the info from the lab report and we can tell you more.

Carat: 1.02
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.01
Depth %: 69.4%
Table %: 70.0%
Measurements: 5.69x5.66x3.93
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Slightly Thick
Culet: None

Carat: 1.08
Cut: "Ideal"
Color: E
Clarity: VVS1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
L/W Ratio: 1.00
Depth %: 69.3%
Table %: 71.0%
Measurements: 5.75x5.74x3.98
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None

Do they have GIA lab report or AGS? What site are you getting the info from because if they are not AGS then they are not ideal.

GIA but not AGS... Haven't found too many diamonds with AGS.

[BILLWAT]

I suppose I should start by thanking everyone for the posts and challenging questions. I truly do appreciate it.

She doesn't want a ring over 1 carats and I want to get her the highest quality diamond I can while keeping to my budget. I have found these 2 diamonds online at Blue nile. I understand that on a princess cut the cut designation is what the company selling the diamond calls it that's why i put ideal in quotation marks.

[davidelevi]

Um. I would not choose Blue Nile to evaluate cut. They never see the diamond, and their cut grade is based on formulas that only use the info available on the report - which does not include pavillion angles and is anyway not sufficient. The good thing about BN is that they are pretty good with returns, so you can easily get out of a stone you don't like, but since they never handle the stone, you can't ask them for photos or videos to help you compare.

Let me ask another question instead - why a Princess cut? Again, you do realise that for the same weight a Princess cut will look smaller than practically any other shape?

[BILLWAT]

She prefers the princess cut to all of the different cuts including the round.

If you would not choose Blue Nile to determine the quality of the cut then who can I trust? I was planning on getting a 3rd party apprsail. Would they be able to tell me the quality of the cut?

Blue Nile also has GCAL reports, but i assume those should be taken with a grain of salt since BN pays for those?

[davidelevi]

It's not so much that they need to be taken with a grain of salt because BN pays, it's that they need to be taken with a shovelful of it because the standards aren't clear (coincidence or not, all links to greater details on the standards they use don't work as of the time of this post). Nor do I know the extent to which these standards would be comparable to the customarily accepted ones by AGS and GIA. There is a fair amount of good things on GCAL's site, but there is also enough BS to fertilize half of the US.

A good appraiser would be able to tell you whether a diamond is cut well or not, but it only shifts the issue down one level; the biggest problem is that at some point personal taste enters the equation, and to compare two stones you still need to see them both together.

[diamondsbylauren]

Great advice given so far.
I would advise to look for a seller that has actual photos, and stones in hand- this way they can give you a personal evaluation- not to discourage an appraisal, but as Davide points out- it can't answer the most important question, which is- how do YOU love it?
In terms of your initial question: You can get a lot more stone for your money by looking at VS and even Si diamonds.
If you can find a seller you're comfortable with to assess the diamond first hand, it's possible to find eye clean SI diamonds, and get a considerably larger stone for your money,