6 replies to this topic

[at1212b]

Hi All, it seems like the BIG moment is almost here.

-Diamond 1 is a VS1 and thus $1000 more expense then Diamond 2 (about 10%). This is taken from Bluenile.

-I was wondering if I could get anybody's input regarding which selection might be preferable and if it is likely Diamond 2's flaw might be noticeable or affect the brilliance.

[url="http://img153.imageshack.us/i/diamond1.gif/"][/url]

Diamond 2
[url="http://img46.imageshack.us/i/diamond2.gif/"][/url]

Seems like Diamond 1 has more but much smaller 'scratches' vs Diamond 2 with one kinda 'Bigger scratch/fracture'

However, it is $1000 cheaper.
I'm leaning towards Diamond 2 for practicality but my 'heart' is leaning on Diamond 1.

Thanks!

[davidelevi]

When you say "scratches/fractures" I assume you are looking at the plot on a GIA report (given it's a BlueNile stone). You cannot draw any conclusions as to whether the inclusions are visible from that. In general:

VS1 and higher you are guaranteed no inclusion will be visible without a loupe, and you'll have a pretty tough time in finding them with a loupe as well.
VS2 is 99.99% invisible - the exception is a strongly contrasting feather or crystal right under the table, which despite its small size may be visible without a loupe in certain lighting conditions. Again, you can't tell from a plot - there is no indication of 3D position or colour, and even the size is purely indicative
SI1 is mostly eye clean, and many SI2 are eye clean, but you really need to check them visually (which BlueNile does not do).

Having said all this, there is no way to say whether any of the two diamonds will look nicer than the other, and clarity would be the last parameter I worry about in that respect. All clarity grades above I1 will not affect brilliance; cut will do so to a much greater degree, and it is a lot harder to evaluate.

Edited by davidelevi, 06 July 2010 - 09:54 AM.

[at1212b]

davidelevi, on Tuesday, Jul 6 2010, 01:50 PM, said:

When you say "scratches/fractures" I assume you are looking at the plot on a GIA report (given it's a BlueNile stone). You cannot draw any conclusions as to whether the inclusions are visible from that. In general:

VS1 and higher you are guaranteed no inclusion will be visible without a loupe, and you'll have a pretty tough time in finding them with a loupe as well.
VS2 is 99.99% invisible - the exception is a strongly contrasting feather or crystal right under the table, which despite its small size may be visible without a loupe in certain lighting conditions. Again, you can't tell from a plot - there is no indication of 3D position or colour, and even the size is purely indicative
SI1 is mostly eye clean, and many SI2 are eye clean, but you really need to check them visually (which BlueNile does not do).

Having said all this, there is no way to say whether any of the two diamonds will look nicer than the other, and clarity would be the last parameter I worry about in that respect. All clarity grades above I1 will not affect brilliance; cut will do so to a much greater degree, and it is a lot harder to evaluate.

Hi David,

wow, thanks for the iinfo.

Given the $1000 cheaper price for diamond 2, I am likely inclined to go with the VS2... I'm not too worried about perfection, just that nothing is glaring at the moment of 'view'.

Yes, 'scratches' I meant by what is shown on the GIA report. Given that there is 'one' major inclusion noted in the report, and it is at the side, I am speculating given your info, since it is not under the table, that it shouldn't affect it too much and should not be visually noticeable.

One thing I'm thinking of is Color is "E" for Diamond 2 vs "F" for Diamond 1.
So Price of: VS1, F >VS2, E

Is it possible that the VS1 to VS2 outweighs Color E to F that much?

[denverappraiser]

Personally I prefer color over clarity if all other things are equal but the market seems to show a bias the other direction. I also prefer cut over both.

The plotting diagrams tell you nothing useful for your purpose (comparison shopping).

Neil

[at1212b]

denverappraiser, on Tuesday, Jul 6 2010, 02:30 PM, said:

Personally I prefer color over clarity if all other things are equal but the market seems to show a bias the other direction. I also prefer cut over both.

The plotting diagrams tell you nothing useful for your purpose (comparison shopping).

Neil

Hi Neil,

Yes, I was looking at the pricing grid and it seems the price jump in Clarity is much higher then a Step up for Color (VS1 from VS2 vs E from F). Since the cut is very similar (both in the Ideal range - also did my basic research on optimal tables, angles, etc), and per your general suggestion of color, I think I am more than leaning towards diamond 2.

Not only savings is the C$1000 savings on diamond 2, there is the added incentive on saving on the taxes (will be shipping to Ontario Canada, where the tax rate is 13%)


I know its a bit of a leap in buying online without looking, but since the Cut, Carat is similar, the Clarity and Color seems to be the main pricing difference. Of course who knows what the final result will be but for now, I'm willing to take that chance... I guess I can return and switch if I'm not too happy.

Since I've been a earlier adopter of buying things online (even bought a car from ebay in the past without looking at it.. doing alot of research and gut feeling did help), I overall have less fear of the online result.

Thanks guys for the inputs and perspectives, and feel free to keep on any additonal opinions.

I know given your knowledge, and importance of actually physically evaluating the diamond, questions like these that just rely on online 'info' from newbies like me can be less then ideal, but it is definitely appreciated.

[davidelevi]

For what it is worth, you won't be able to tell the difference between an E and an F either, particularly once they are set.

IF the "scratch" is what is called a feather, and IF it is white and off centre, you are very unlikely to see it in a VS2, even with a loupe, once the diamond is set.

The only thing on cut is that it's not as easy to assess as the rest, and the GIA grades are (in my opinion) not discriminating enough - there are virtually no diamonds scoring fair or poor, and the vast majority are graded VG or EX. So, two stones graded Excellent may still be quite different, and one can look definitely nicer than the other.

(Aside: I guess this is a result of using qualitative labels and having to some extent to negotiate things with the industry; no-one wants a diamond graded as "poor", but I guess that 8/10 as in the AGS grading is slightly more palatable)

Good luck with the purchase, and let us know how the rest of the ring (and proposal) goes!

[pfq1982]

I think BN lets you return the stones for free (after shipping). So why not buy both, float it on your credit card, get them both in the mail in a couple days and compare.

Just be careful not to lose them (the wire prongs aren't super stable) and return the one you don't like quickly to avoid a payment on your card.

Then you can see for yourself how the inclusions look. It's true that you can't really tell by the map. If they are on the surface or colored, that can make all the difference. And this man's suspicion is that you generally have adverse selection at BN with regard to the likelihood of getting "bad" inclusions vs. "good" or "eye-clean" inclusions. Not to dis BN (I bought my wife's stone from there and love it.. see my threads..)!