14 replies to this topic

[maybeitsjustme]

Where can someone browse through a large selection of AGS diamonds? I have only found a couple of places online (james allen) that have a selection of stones from this lab.

A jeweler recommended by a friend informed me not to get caught up on AGS, and that they send a lot of stones overseas to Japan (which could be total BS).

How comparable is a GIA rating of Ex/Ex to a triple 0 from AGS?

also, would an AGS SI1 generally be considered eye clean?

any help would be greatly appreciated!

thanks.

Edited by maybeitsjustme, 29 May 2010 - 04:56 PM.

[davidelevi]

Bear in mind that the only thing AGS (or any other lab) does is grade the diamond - and the choice of which lab to send the stone to is purely the owner's. There is no such thing as an AGS diamond or a GIA diamond; costs and times for grading are largely comparable across labs (and differences negligible compared to the value of the stones). AGS has a reputation for being strict on grading, and it adopts a scale on diamond grades that allows for finer distinctions than GIA's, with the result that stones getting a grade with GIA (e.g. "excellent" polish) will end up being split in two grades by AGS (0,1). This means people will tend to submit stones to AGS when they think the stone is particularly good - and thus rare.

Jared's have a line ("Peerless") that is graded by AGS, but reports by others make me think their selection is not broad. Several "smaller" retailers use AGS, either exclusively or in combination with GIA, but they don't make a point of carrying a broad selection; rather they tend to carry a relatively narrow selection of very high quality stones. The lab they (or their suppliers) use is not part of their marketing USP.

I am puzzled as to why the recommended jeweller told you not to get "caught up" - AGS is a highly professional and respected organisation, and the fact that they have customers in Japan (I have no idea if it's true) I'd see as a plus point in their credibility and reputation. AGS don't "send" anything anywhere, except to return the stone to its owner, who has contracted AGS to grade it; if the customer is in Japan, the lab will ship to Japan. There is a total confusion of cause and effect in saying that "they send lots of stones to Japan" - the stones were sent from Japan to get graded; does this jeweller expect the lab to send these graded stones to Greenland, perhaps?

Comparability on polish and symmetry is not hugely difficult: roughly speaking, AGS splits each GIA grade into two, but the correspondence is not perfect on some details of grading. On cut, as well as using a finer scale (0-9 vs. EX/VG/G/F/P), the standards are quite different, with AGS being much stricter (some say unnecessarily) than GIA on awarding the top grades. In other words: an AGS Ideal Cut (0) is almost certainly a GIA Excellent; not the reverse.

Clarity is not graded - by any lab - on the visibility of the inclusions; only on their presence. Most properly graded SI1 (whether graded by GIA, AGS or anyone else) are eye clean, but the only way to be certain about it is to see the stone. No grading report will ever tell you whether the inclusion is visible.

[maybeitsjustme]

Hey, and thanks for the quick response. I think i misspoke, when i said that AGS sends to Japan, etc. I think what this guy was claiming is that a lot of his suppliers send their stones which are AGS rated overseas, because the market is better over there. IE, not the american mindset of getting the most for your dollar. He was saying that over there, people want perfection at any cost, more so than in the US. This again, may or may not be so true.

This same guy is also trying to sell me EGL stones which he sends out himself. The jury is still out on this guy, although he seems nice and did my find my buddy an AGS triple zero F color SI1, 1.52C for 12k. This pipe dream is one of the only reasons I'm even putting up with the guy.

Would it be insane to think you can get a nice diamond for 8k that is, 1.5 carats, G-I color, VS2 or SI1 and eye clean with excellent cut?

that's basically what i'm looking for at this point..

also, are there any geographical differences in the prices of diamonds in the united states? For instance, i live in boston, ma--would it be cheaper for me to buy a diamond in florida where my parents live? a few ladies i work with also advised heading into NYC's diamond district.

are there discounts to be had based on geographic region, or is this market for these things fairly even everywhere?

thanks again for all of the help.

[diamondsbylauren]

HI Maybe!

I'd stick away from stones in higher qualities with EGL reports.

In terms of AGS versus GIA- I prefer GIA.
AGS does have a very good reputation, but it's far more "boutique"- not nearly as well known as GIA in a broad sense.
You will be severely limiting your options by eliminating GIA graded stones- there's probably 50 GIA graded stones on the market for every AGS stone.
I am not advising you not to buy a diamond graded by AGS- rather recommending you also consider GIA graded diamonds.

I'd say an I/SI1 EX cut grade might be had for the $8k budget......

IN terms of geography- if you're buying from an online sellers, that aspect eliminates geographical differences.
In stores, there are different prices based on location....but nt exactly as you might expect.
If a store sells a lot of diamonds, they may be able to offer a better price than a store that only sells diamonds occasionally.
That generally means bigger cities- but there's some great dealers ourt in the boonies as well.

I hope this helps!

[davidelevi]

Also, if you stick to 1.4x rather than 1.5x it is going to help considerably on the budget for practically no visual difference.

However, the lab does make a difference. GIA and AGS are in one category (with the provisos noted above); EGL is in a completely different one. Don't assume a 1.5x H/VS2 EGL is going to be the same as a GIA/AGS stone with the same grade. Differences in price are there for a reason, and $20 in lab fees is not it.

Edited by davidelevi, 30 May 2010 - 11:03 AM.

[maybeitsjustme]

Hey again,

I was recently offered the following stone for $8900:

ags cert round brilliant
1.512 carats
VS1
I color
excellent cut
ideal polish
ideal symmetry
56% table
7.34x7.35x4.57 measurements

would this be considered a good deal? I'm planning to mount in platinum.. Would ags I color appear yellow in a platinum setting?

I've seen other I color stones and they appaearer white to the eye. But the jury is still out in my mind. But this price point seems pretty good.

Please share thoughts.

Thanks again!!

Edited by maybeitsjustme, 03 June 2010 - 04:04 AM.

[denverappraiser]

It’s easy enough to check your own prices with the ‘find online jeweler’ button at the top of the page, entering a few numbers and looking for comparable stones from the dealers who advertise here. Unlike the ‘find local’ jeweler choice, you get results immediately and it’s not necessary to talk to a salesperson to get an offer. It doesn't make any difference if you EVER intend to talk to any of these people, the data is fast and free.


I do have a question though. ‘Excellent’ is AGS’s #2 cut grade, behind ‘Ideal’ and my understanding is that they will only give ‘ideal’ polish/symmetry grades to stones that get the same for cut. That means that the stats you list aren’t possible using the AGS grading system. Are you sure you’re quoting it correctly and, if so, are sure that it’s a genuine AGS grading?

Neil

[davidelevi]

To your other question: a well cut I colour will appear white in any setting. Only if you put it right next to an F or higher will the tint be apparent.

[maybeitsjustme]

Thanks for the help with other sites regarding pricing--i've reviewed and i think that if the stone is what they are telling me--this is a super fair price. I was looking for more of a subjective second opinion. In your combined experience, does this appear to be a good deal, or not?

I attached the AGS report that they sent over to me--does this appear to be legitimate? The retailer was found off a link from the diamond search here on diamond.info--are all of these sellers legit?

Also, glad to hear that an I color will face up white when set in platinum. If you guys think that this appears to be legit, I am ready to bite on this one..

there is always the review period after receiving the stone as well. what do you all think?

thanks again for all of the help!

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[denverappraiser]

Yes, that's legit, and I stand corrected. I just got off the phone with AGSL and Ex/Id/Id is a valid combination. Sorry to add confusion.

Neil

[maybeitsjustme]

Wow! thanks for taking the time to call AGSL--that is awesome of you, and very much appreciated.

Overall, what do you think on the value of this diamond--I'd like to think i am getting at least a fair/hopefully good deal here!!

thanks again Neil!!

[davidelevi]

It seems a fair price, and all the dealers advertising on "find an online jeweler" are solid and reputable businesses. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the proof of the diamond is in the seeing. You are now at the point where you need to verify whether you like the stone; and you are right that this is what the return period is for.

Before you jump, however, I would advise you to go and see some other diamonds - so that you have something to compare to. Jared's stock AGS Ideal cut grade diamonds under the brand/trade name "Peerless". I'm not suggesting you buy there, but take a look and see if the extra smidgen on cut quality may be worth sacrificing the 1.5x (and going to 1.48). Tiffany is another reasonably widespread chain that has very well cut (and consistently cut) stones.

[jan]

maybeitsjustme, on Saturday, May 29 2010, 08:48 PM, said:

Where can someone browse through a large selection of AGS diamonds? I have only found a couple of places online (james allen) that have a selection of stones from this lab.

A jeweler recommended by a friend informed me not to get caught up on AGS, and that they send a lot of stones overseas to Japan (which could be total BS).

How comparable is a GIA rating of Ex/Ex to a triple 0 from AGS?

also, would an AGS SI1 generally be considered eye clean?

any help would be greatly appreciated!

thanks.

I like the AGS platinum reports which show the light performance as well as the cut grade. Does the stone that you are looking at have one of those? There are still some variances in the AGS ideal range as far a light performance goes. Of course a top hearts and arrows diamond with a platinum light performance report will definitely cost more than the $8900 range.

[maybeitsjustme]

Thanks for all of the replies. I most recently was offered the attached diamond. I've included a picture of its idealscope and aset. It also has an HCA rating of .9, which i'm told is good.

What do you all think of this diamond's light performance based on the idealscope and aset? As far as i can tell, the results in these pictures is pretty good..

Again, thanks for all of the help.

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Edited by maybeitsjustme, 08 June 2010 - 03:18 PM.

[davidelevi]

Ignore the HCA. At this stage (i.e. looking at a physical stone, or at least its photos) it definitely does more harm than good.

The question at this point is: How perfect do you want to go? The ASET and the IS images clearly show that this stone is not among the super best from an optical symmetry point of view. See the ASET between 11 and 1 o'clock (corresponding to IS 6 to 8 o'clock), and secondarily just to the left of 6 o'clock. Also, the arrows aren't all perfectly aligned with their shafts, and there seem to be variations in their shape/size. Does it mean it's not nice? Not at all. And its particular charm may very well lie in the irregularities that make its pattern of light unique. What does the seller say about it? He has seen it in real life, we haven't.