11 replies to this topic

[pot9]

Help!
Hi guys, can anybody help me. I was of the understanding that an si2 diamond was eye clear. My understanding of eye clear is that flaws cannot be seen without magnification. I have just purchased a 1.52 G Si2 diamond engagement ring for my fiancee with a GIA cert. Should I be able to see two carbon spots in the stone with my naked eye.
Any help is greatly appreciated as I really want to return it asap. Thanks P

[davidelevi]

Many - but by no means all - SI2 are eye clean. SI2 like all other grades is a range, going from just below SI1 to just above I1 - and there is quite some distance between them. In general, SI diamonds represent good value for money, but some of the "discount" is taken back in additional work to find those that are eye clean. In fact, even some VS2 are not eye clean, meaning the inclusion will be visible without magnification to some people in some lighting and at some viewing angles/distances.

If you can see black spots in the diamond, and this bothers you, return it and ask the seller to help you find something that is eye clean. Bear in mind that lighting conditions, the angle and distance of observation, whether the stone is set or loose, and your own visual acuity will all affect the visibility of the inclusion. The more closely you specify these conditions to the seller, the easier it will be for him to find a stone that works for you.

[Need to Know]

pot9, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 04:37 AM, said:

Help!
Hi guys, can anybody help me. I was of the understanding that an si2 diamond was eye clear. My understanding of eye clear is that flaws cannot be seen without magnification. I have just purchased a 1.52 G Si2 diamond engagement ring for my fiancee with a GIA cert. Should I be able to see two carbon spots in the stone with my naked eye.
Any help is greatly appreciated as I really want to return it asap. Thanks P

just out of curiousity how much did this Diamond cost you ?

[pot9]

Need to Know, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

pot9, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 04:37 AM, said:

Help!
Hi guys, can anybody help me. I was of the understanding that an si2 diamond was eye clear. My understanding of eye clear is that flaws cannot be seen without magnification. I have just purchased a 1.52 G Si2 diamond engagement ring for my fiancee with a GIA cert. Should I be able to see two carbon spots in the stone with my naked eye.
Any help is greatly appreciated as I really want to return it asap. Thanks P

just out of curiousity how much did this Diamond cost you ?

8 k

[pot9]

davidelevi, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 02:54 PM, said:

Many - but by no means all - SI2 are eye clean. SI2 like all other grades is a range, going from just below SI1 to just above I1 - and there is quite some distance between them. In general, SI diamonds represent good value for money, but some of the "discount" is taken back in additional work to find those that are eye clean. In fact, even some VS2 are not eye clean, meaning the inclusion will be visible without magnification to some people in some lighting and at some viewing angles/distances.

If you can see black spots in the diamond, and this bothers you, return it and ask the seller to help you find something that is eye clean. Bear in mind that lighting conditions, the angle and distance of observation, whether the stone is set or loose, and your own visual acuity will all affect the visibility of the inclusion. The more closely you specify these conditions to the seller, the easier it will be for him to find a stone that works for you.

Thanks for the info. I'm really not sure what to do, this is the second stone I have got. The first was an IGI but the colour didnt look like G when compered with GIA so I changed it.
The stone now is an excellent cut, excellent polish and excellent symmetry, so maybe its the compromise you have to make when buying a Si2 and on a strict budget. Would I be right in saying this ? I m new to the world of diamonds. Thanks again.

[denverappraiser]

So far you've been successful.

Your first search was for the cheapest stone that someone would call a 1.5x/G/SI2. You found it.
Your next search was for the cheapest stone that GIA was willing to call a 1.5x/G/SI2/xxx. You found it.
You’re now searching for the cheapest stone that someone is likely to call ‘eye clean’ that GIA is willing to call a 1.5x/G/SI2/xxx.

That’s getting progressively more specific but you’re still dealing with the same problem. WHO is calling it ‘eye clean’ and what do they mean by that? The cheapest dealers are the drop shippers who can’t see the stone and who are relying on GIA for this info. (Note: GIA doesn’t include this as part of their grading procedure). Your only option is to believe what someone who can’t see it and who has an $8k sale hanging on the result is telling you, at least for as long as it takes to order it in and look at it yourself. If you don’t agree, ship it back and choose another one. Eventually you’ll luck out and hopefully this won’t take too long or cost too much in terms of shipping fees. Eventually this is likely to work. Your alternatives are one or more of the following:

1) Buy from a dealer who has the stone in stock or who is willing to order it in and who can discuss your ‘eye clean’ standard with you in a way that's at least moderately useful. This is nearly certain to raise the budget because the additional work is not a free service, even though it’s not usually separately billed. The cheapest dealers simply won’t agree to do this.

2) Find a dealer who has them in stock and go to their showroom to look at them in person. Depending on how far away they are, this will cost you a bit in travel costs and possibly get you a dealer who will be required to collect sales taxes from you. As with the above, the dealers who have the facilities and who agree to this are unlikely to be the rock bottom cheapest.

3) Drop at least one of your standards. A single grade on either clarity or color or size down to 1.4x will do quite a bit. Polish and/or symmetry down to VG will do a little bit, as will accepting medium or greater fluorescence. That’ll bring down the budget to offset one of the above.

4) Raise your budget.

Neil

[davidelevi]

Just one thought on clarity. Dropping down from SI2 to I1 will - as Neil says - allow you to stretch budget. However, if you already have an issue with finding a clean SI2, finding a clean I1 (while possible) is much harder. In order, I'd drop down to just below 1.50, accept fluorescence, then colour.

[pot9]

denverappraiser, on Monday, May 24 2010, 03:28 AM, said:

So far you've been successful.

Your first search was for the cheapest stone that someone would call a 1.5x/G/SI2. You found it.
Your next search was for the cheapest stone that GIA was willing to call a 1.5x/G/SI2/xxx. You found it.
You’re now searching for the cheapest stone that someone is likely to call ‘eye clean’ that GIA is willing to call a 1.5x/G/SI2/xxx.

That’s getting progressively more specific but you’re still dealing with the same problem. WHO is calling it ‘eye clean’ and what do they mean by that? The cheapest dealers are the drop shippers who can’t see the stone and who are relying on GIA for this info. (Note: GIA doesn’t include this as part of their grading procedure). Your only option is to believe what someone who can’t see it and who has an $8k sale hanging on the result is telling you, at least for as long as it takes to order it in and look at it yourself. If you don’t agree, ship it back and choose another one. Eventually you’ll luck out and hopefully this won’t take too long or cost too much in terms of shipping fees. Eventually this is likely to work. Your alternatives are one or more of the following:

1) Buy from a dealer who has the stone in stock or who is willing to order it in and who can discuss your ‘eye clean’ standard with you in a way that's at least moderately useful. This is nearly certain to raise the budget because the additional work is not a free service, even though it’s not usually separately billed. The cheapest dealers simply won’t agree to do this.

2) Find a dealer who has them in stock and go to their showroom to look at them in person. Depending on how far away they are, this will cost you a bit in travel costs and possibly get you a dealer who will be required to collect sales taxes from you. As with the above, the dealers who have the facilities and who agree to this are unlikely to be the rock bottom cheapest.

3) Drop at least one of your standards. A single grade on either clarity or color or size down to 1.4x will do quite a bit. Polish and/or symmetry down to VG will do a little bit, as will accepting medium or greater fluorescence. That’ll bring down the budget to offset one of the above.

4) Raise your budget.

Neil

Thanks for all the info, really appreciate your time and thoughts. I am now in talks with diamond man about getting it changed, its just a little messy because here in Dublin diamond prices are exceptionally high and I did not want to travel and the price I paid was 5k less than next best price. I will let you s how how it goes.

[denverappraiser]

I’m glad we could help. Prices in Europe are generally higher than the US because of the taxes both in terms of the VAT and the downstream affect of other taxes on things like rent and the cost of employees as well as the entrenched distribution system. If you think Ireland is bad, someday check out the prices of things in Japan. If the stone you’re looking at is out of whack for others in the market it’s in, you can bet there’s a reason and it’s up to you to decide both what that reason is and whether it’s going to be acceptable to you. You’ve bumped into and rejected two and it’s on to the next. It’s a learning process. You will NOT get everything you want for the rock bottom price but you’re on the right track as a procedure. Let us know how it goes.

Neil

[barry]

You might want to consider carat weight in the 1.40-1.45 range which will bring the price down and still be visually the same to the 1.52.

[barry]

Doubtful that you will be able to detect a color difference between E-F-G in the face up position.

[barry]

No, on the contrary.

E-F-G are so close that if three diamonds with these colors were placed in front of you face up to compare side-by-side, you would not be able to distinguish any color difference.