12 replies to this topic

[Texas Rose]

I purchased a .96 SI(1) F diamond from a large jewelry chain in Colorado back in 2007. After a dramatic mountain top proposal, my wife and I got married and then moved down to her hometown in Texas. She was happy to see that the jewelry chain existed down here and had them inspect and service her ring (I also purchased the setting from that same store). A couple of months ago, my wife noticed a rough spot on her diamond. With the naked eye, you could see a slight chip out of the side of her diamond.

We took her ring back to the store and they agreed to send the ring and stone back to their headquarters and give us a diamond of equal or greater worth. Herein lies my questions. I am being offered a .99 SI(2) D diamond. My original was a Leo diamond, and this one is a Leo "Peerless" so I'm being told that it has better brillance. My issue is that the new diamond has an extra facet. It is rated "good" on symmetry, but it seems odd to me that at or below the girdle it has a very small corner shaved off. I can see it at 10x magnification, but it is not noticable to the naked eye or by feeling it. Is this unusual to have a diamond with an extra facet that is marked on the IGI report?

I'm also curious as to the expected appreciation of my original diamond. A salesman claimed that this new diamond was already worth at least $1500 more than my old one, yet its retail price was only one hundred dollars more when I pulled out my original receipt. If they are replacing my old diamond with one of better or equal value, what would be the expected price difference considering that I purchased mine three years ago?

Thanks for any and all help or advice that you can give me. Currently I'm asking them to hold the ring and diamond because I'm unwilling to sign off on being satisfied (this is making me somewhat unpopular with my impatient wife). I've also attached the IGI report for the new diamond they are offering and can attach more information if you'd like.

Thanks again for your help.

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[denverappraiser]

In terms of price, an SI2/D will generally trade for a little bit less than an otherwise similar SI1/F, maybe 5% or so, but this isn’t really the first thing that raises my attention since you’re a few percent larger as well. Who graded the 0.96/SI1/F? Can you post that report as well?

The boundary between SI2 and I1 is terribly important in this business. I was under the impression that the ‘peerless’ line was graded by AGSL and all had AGS-0 proportions. Apparently not. Do some research into the lab that they’re asking you to rely on, especially if it’s different from the lab that graded your original stone. Labs are not all the same.

Whether the extra facet kills it from being comparable to the damaged stone depends on the details of the damaged stone as well as the one they’re showing you but I would be surprised if this stone shows especially good brilliance given the proportions on the report. The extra facet is, at least in part, the reason for the ‘good’ symmetry rating and they aren’t unusual. It’s part of the way they keep the weight up and the cutter was trying, unsuccessfully apparently, to keep it over a 1 carat. As I’m sure you know, that raises the price noticeably.

If you’re in doubt about this deal, seek out an independent appraiser (meaning someone who doesn’t work for them or one of their competitors) and arrange to show them both stones. So far the store seems to be honoring their warranty and making a stab at a good offer so they deserve some kudos for that but it doesn't mean you should take the first thing they offer or to believe blindly everything they tell you. To paraphrase: Trust but verify.

Neil

[davidelevi]

Kudos to the retailer for standing behind their goods even when it's clearly not due to any fault of theirs, after 3 years.

Extra facets are not uncommon - cutters sometimes choose to deviate from a canonical cutting style to eliminate inclusions or areas of potential breakage in the stone. Labs will generally downgrade symmetry on diamonds with extra facets. As to the impact on brilliance, it's impossible to say without seeing the stone and ideally having some sort of analysis through an ASET or BrillianceScope/GemEx; if it is right on the girdle, its impact on light path is likely to be minimal.

On value, the question is complex. Even assuming (big assumption) that the IGI reports are reliable, the difference in retail price between a D/SI2 0.9x and F/SI1 0.9x is of the order of 5% or less, in favour of the SI1 (everything else being equal, particularly the visibility of the inclusions and cut quality). Certainly not the 30-50% in favour of the SI2 that the salesman is implying. It is possible that the new diamond is worth slightly more or less than the old one because of the cut quality and/or greater visibility of the inclusions, but I would regard them as largely comparable. Small white stone prices are pretty much at a standstill, or even in slight decline compared to 2007, so I wouldn't expect a significant difference to come from inflation/value increase over time.

Overall, I don't see anything to be concerned with, as long as you are happy with the looks of the new diamond (without using a loupe and not focusing on the extra facet). In particular if you didn't have some sort of "lifetime guarantee" including accidental damage, and the dealer is replacing the stone out of goodwill, I'd count myself very lucky.

ETA Neil: I think it it's Jared's "Peerless" line that is AGS-0, and those are traditional 57 facet rounds. This is a Leo, with a "Peerless" moniker added by Schacter; I think these are all retailed with IGI reports. Just to add to the merry go round.

Edited by davidelevi, 22 May 2010 - 09:10 AM.

[denverappraiser]

davidelevi, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 01:01 PM, said:

ETA Neil: I think it it's Jared's "Peerless" line that is AGS-0, and those are traditional 57 facet rounds. This is a Leo, with a "Peerless" moniker added by Schacter; I think these are all retailed with IGI reports. Just to add to the merry go round.

Got it. I think Leo Schacter is related to Sterling Corp, which owns Jareds as well as a few other stores and all of these connections can get confusing. The report above is from Gem Sciences International, not IGI, but possibly they've changed allegiances recently.

Neil

[Texas Rose]

Dear Neil and David,

Thanks for the informative and quick reply. I've tried to attach the two reports I have for each of the diamonds in question. I had thought that these reports were reliable, but Neil you mentioned getting an independent appraiser and researching the labs. Aren't these two reports supposed to be independently done?

Incidently, I do have a lifetime warranty on the diamond, although I purchased that more in an effort to get full maintenance on the ring than for protection of the stone (I didn't know that I real diamond could chip, but after reading more on this website I'm finding that there is a lot I don't know about diamonds).

Anyhow, I am being as polite as possible to all of the salespeople who have been trying to help me, but I will be persistent in asking questions to insure that I do get a satisfactory replacement. Any additional input you can offer me in terms of a comparison would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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[denverappraiser]

You are asking to compare details of two stones using only the partial information on lab reports done by two different labs, four years apart. By far the best way to do this is with a trained grader who can examine both stones in person. Since you want this advice to be as free as possible of commercial bias, that means an independent grader hired by YOU, not them, and since your questions go to value, that means an independent appraiser (who is operating a capable lab).

Labs are not all the same. They do not all use the same grading scales and they do not apply them equally. It’s a huge topic in the diamond business. One lab’s idea of a G is routinely another labs idea of an I, one lab’s SI2 is another lab’s I1 etc. If you’re going to rely on a lab opinion, make sure you understand who the lab is and decide if you want to be basing a decision on their thoughts. In your case you’re using TWO labs and I would recommend researching the reliability of both before you rely on either. By a wide margin the most respected labs are GIA and AGSL but, as far as I know, Leo doesn’t use either of them for this product line.

Assuming that both stones were graded using similar methodology, those look very comparable to me but, again, that’s a big assumption and I haven’t seen either one, which is a huge qualifier. You trusted the jeweler the first time when you made the purchase and they seem to be doing their darnedest to honor their warranty, why are you worried about them now?

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 23 May 2010 - 01:23 PM.

[Need to Know]

Texas Rose, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

Anyhow, I am being as polite as possible to all of the salespeople who have been trying to help me, but I will be persistent in asking questions to insure that I do get a satisfactory replacement. Any additional input you can offer me in terms of a comparison would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You should be bringing these people breakfast and lunch everyday and then giving them a Rub dwn at night, sorry to hear that your diamond broke but jut like anything else diamonds can break, chip, scratch etc.. and you broke it, that's why they have this thing called insurance.

You would not try to Turn in your car for a new one at the Dealerships expense after you wrapped it around a pole would you ???

I am amazed that the store replaced it with anything and I am even more amazed at how ungrateful and anal you are to come here crying about something that you should never have received in the first place.

NOW Call Your insurance Broker like you should have done on Day 1 and insure your ring as I doubt you will ever get another one.

In addition, of course the replacement you have is worth less than the one you turned in my best guess would be that your stone had a minor abrassion which was easily polished out.

[denverappraiser]

Need to Know, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

Texas Rose, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

Anyhow, I am being as polite as possible to all of the salespeople who have been trying to help me, but I will be persistent in asking questions to insure that I do get a satisfactory replacement. Any additional input you can offer me in terms of a comparison would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You should be bringing these people breakfast and lunch everyday and then giving them a Rub dwn at night, sorry to hear that your diamond broke but jut like anything else diamonds can break, chip, scratch etc.. and you broke it, that's why they have this thing called insurance.

You would not try to Turn in your car for a new one at the Dealerships expense after you wrapped it around a pole would you ???

I am amazed that the store replaced it with anything and I am even more amazed at how ungrateful and anal you are to come here crying about something that you should never have received in the first place.

NOW Call Your insurance Broker like you should have done on Day 1 and insure your ring as I doubt you will ever get another one.

In addition, of course the replacement you have is worth less than the one you turned in my best guess would be that your stone had a minor abrassion which was easily polished out.

He bought an insurance policy, even though they called it a 'warranty', and he filed a claim after they discovered damage. They're making good on it without a fight. That's a good thing to be sure, and it's a vote in favor of that jeweler, but it's not an example either of them going way over backwards or of him being ungrateful.

Neil

[Need to Know]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 02:09 PM, said:

Need to Know, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

Texas Rose, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

Anyhow, I am being as polite as possible to all of the salespeople who have been trying to help me, but I will be persistent in asking questions to insure that I do get a satisfactory replacement. Any additional input you can offer me in terms of a comparison would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You should be bringing these people breakfast and lunch everyday and then giving them a Rub dwn at night, sorry to hear that your diamond broke but jut like anything else diamonds can break, chip, scratch etc.. and you broke it, that's why they have this thing called insurance.

You would not try to Turn in your car for a new one at the Dealerships expense after you wrapped it around a pole would you ???

I am amazed that the store replaced it with anything and I am even more amazed at how ungrateful and anal you are to come here crying about something that you should never have received in the first place.

NOW Call Your insurance Broker like you should have done on Day 1 and insure your ring as I doubt you will ever get another one.

In addition, of course the replacement you have is worth less than the one you turned in my best guess would be that your stone had a minor abrassion which was easily polished out.

He bought an insurance policy, even though they called it a 'warranty', and he filed a claim after they discovered damage. They're making good on it without a fight. That's a good thing to be sure, and it's a vote in favor of that jeweler, but it's not an example either of them going way over backwards or of him being ungrateful.

Neil

Well if he paid for insurance then he should get a suitable replacement.

[denverappraiser]

Texas Rose, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

Incidently, I do have a lifetime warranty on the diamond, although I purchased that more in an effort to get full maintenance on the ring than for protection of the stone (I didn't know that I real diamond could chip, but after reading more on this website I'm finding that there is a lot I don't know about diamonds).

Need to Know, on Sunday, May 23 2010, 01:15 PM, said:

Well if he paid for insurance then he should get a suitable replacement.

Exactly.

[Texas Rose]

Thanks to all who helped, and especially to Neil for coming to my cyber-defense. Since the extra facet does not hurt the value of the diamond, and mostly because my wife likes the new stone and really wants her ring back, I made the exchange today. If I can add anything to be of use to anyone else reading this message board it would this: purchase the "guarentee" or "waranty" that many stores offer. It not only helps with sizing and maintaining the ring, it is very nice when something more major happens.

[HeartAndStone]

Hi!

Cheers! to a successful thread!
Most of all your wife is happy about her new stone.
Customer Satisfaction, guaranteed.
If its not too much to ask, hope you can share the name of that store.
And show us the latest picture of diamond ring!

Thanks!

[Texas Rose]

I purchased the original stone at a Jared's in Colorado Springs and then was helped by the Jared's in Webster, Texas (just south of Houston). If my wife, her camera, and my computer can all get together at the same time sometime soon, I'll send a picture.