12 replies to this topic

[mhova21]

I've done a considerable amount of homework/research, but I've got so many questions that may not be so clear cut as to find an answer through simply reading through dozens of text pages. So I am going to devote this thread to those questions....


First, I am looking for a white gold or platinum engagement ring, sidestones, and princess cut main stone. Budget is between 5-7k. Her finger is small, size 4 or 4.5 I believe. She is not obsessed with carat size, but like most women, I know she wants something that will look big.

I was thinking something around 1.5C total weight, but I'm not sure how that carat weight should be distributed between the center stone and side/setting stones. I suppose a slightly different way to phrase this question is what, if any, is the typical price ratio of setting:main stone? Any suggestions?

Next, opinions on having mixed cuts, ie. princess center stone with round side/channel stones?

I'll stick with those two issues for now. I've lurked these forums for a few weeks now and it seems that there are some very knowledgeable people here, so thank you in advance for the help. -Mark

Edited by mhova21, 16 May 2010 - 12:21 PM.

[davidelevi]

Hi Mark, welcome!

If you are looking at a ring with three stones (main + 2 sides), a rule of thumb is to keep diameter/size (not weight) to about 1/2 to 2/3 of the main stone. This in turn means price (assuming all else: colour, clarity, cut is the same) is much less than 1/2! A good starting point for budgeting purposes is about 15-20% of centre for both sides.

Here is a recent thread with a bit of a discussion around this topic http://www.diamond.info/forum/index.php?sh...ic=5146&hl=

At the end of the day, here as in anything else, what matters is what she likes. The same applies to princess cuts. I don't like them at all, so I wouldn't ruin a pair of nice rounds by making them sit next to a princess cut. Some people love them. Neither one of us is "right". Mixing cuts can be fun, and some of the greatest pieces of jewellery exploit the difference in looks of different cuts to great effect. Sticking to one shape and cutting style is safer, though, and at the end it goes back to personal taste. I have a friend that keeps saying she doesn't like mixing step cuts with brilliant cuts - but then oohs and aahs over the pieces I have, and those are mostly mixed.

A couple of comments in terms of size: bear in mind that weight is only a rough indication of apparent size. Rounds will look larger than princesses for the same weight, and a well cut diamond will look larger than a poorly cut one of the same weight. If you want something stunning, my advice is to select a shape, then focus on cut first, colour second (and there's no "better" here - only more or less expensive), clarity has to be eye clean (but don't "waste" money on anything above VS2), and adjust weight to suit budget.

Lastly, since you are at the beginning: by any means ask questions and form ideas and opinions, but the three most helpful things you can do are:

1. Go and see diamonds. Real ones. Well cut and poorly cut. D colour and K colour. VVS1 and SI2. Oval and Emerald cut. 0.50 ct and 4.50 ct. And everything else in between.

2. If you can, go with her. I'm still surprised at what my wife ends up liking or not liking, and I've lived with her for over 20 years.

3. Before you start choosing stones, choose your dealer. Talk to people, call them on the phone if they are remote or they deal online. Get a feeling for whether you could get along with them, whether they are interested only in your money or in helping you to make a good decision, whether they are truly the expert that they claim to be.

[HeartAndStone]

@ mhova21!

Welcome!

If you we're about to conduct a survey on 'the bigger the better' for 'US' girls nah.,
Cut and sparkle matters.
For me, say a big 'princess cut' would somehow 'highlight' the 'flaws' (if purchased impulsively without an executive opinion). The tendency to 'search' for something that is not 'quite' right is a woman's illness, so beware. And you can counter this by having a reliable grading lab certificate.

Round,cushion and emerald cuts are safer.., (for me).
The solution, talk to her.

4-4.5 ring size, delicate & precious finger,but for three 'stones'.. (3 is a crowd)..
Keep us posted., mhova21.,
You're hunting, ayt?click the "Find Online Jeweler" calculating tool, this will help you.

Cheers!

[mhova21]

Thanks for the help thus far.
I went to a few of the typical jewelers (Zales, Kays, Jared) and I have not been very impressed. I liked one of the Zales settings (below), but even to my untrained eye the center stone looked terrible. Not much sparkle and I could see a yellowish tint. The jeweler I talked to also seemed to push me away from purchasing a loose center stone, and then claimed he wasn't sure if a princess cut could be inserted....I don't see why this would be a problem. I was impressed by some of the Leo stones at Kay's, but they also made it seem as if it would be a hassle if I wanted a larger Leo stone rather than the 5/8carat that was already in the setting.




Overall, I think I would be better off picking a loose diamond to get what I really want. I believe I've narrowed my criteria to 0.8 to 1carat center stone (approx 1.5carat total weight), color: D-G, clarity VS1-VS2, and as for cut....well, an ideal cut would be nice lol I now realize that I may be looking at somewhere between $6000-$7000 for all this, at least that is what the less than trusty jewelers have told me.

While I am basically terrified of purchasing from an online dealer, it seems like it may be the way to go for higher quality and lower price. So I have a couple additional questions:

1) How does ring and stone maintenance typically play out when going this route? Can I simply choose a local jeweler and buy a maintenance/insurance plan through them that will cover cleanings, repairs, re-sizing, rhodium re-plating, etc.?

2) Do you typically have the ring appraised afterward to verify its quality and basically make sure you didn't get ripped off?

3) How do I handle differences in the 4C's between the main stone and side accent stones? For example, I would assume you wouldn't want to pair a D color center with I or J sides, but what would be an acceptable, yet non-distracting difference in grades?

Edited by mhova21, 22 May 2010 - 12:06 PM.

[denverappraiser]

Maintenance plans are overrated. Cleaning and checking are free at pretty much any jewelry store anyway, whether or not you bought it from them. It brings you into the store and leaves you waiting around for a little while, it costs them nothing and it can lead to sales of new things as well as sales of repairs if there’s a problem. Stores LOVE this.

Ring sizing isn’t terribly expensive and, more importantly, it’s unlikely you’ll need to do it on her ring more than a few times in her whole life so it’s largely irrelevant what it costs. ‘Free’ sizing just isn’t a big enough deal to worry about when you’re talking about spending thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars.

Same thing with rhodium plating. If you’re really compulsive about it, they can add up but, around here, it costs about $25 to get done if you just pay at the time you need it. Most people do it once a year or less. You can decide what it’s worth to have a prepaid program but I wouldn’t put it at more than $200 or so.

Serious problems, like the stone falling out of your setting or stone breakage are usually covered by your insurance anyway, along with the risk of loss, theft, fire etc. These are risks that aren't covered under the maintenance plan so most people end up buying the insurance anyway. It is a bit more convenient to replace a stone under the jewelers policy if you’re still living nearby but I’m not sure I would pay a whole lot extra for this convenience. Many (but not all) manufacturers have a warranty that covers manufacturing defects as well.

In the case of all of the above, most jewelers with a bench on site will be happy to do work for you if you pay them, regardless of where you bought the piece. This ‘ala carte’ approach also has the advantage of allowing you to shop the jeweler based on their skills rather than a prior contractual arrangement. They are not all the same and the workers at the chain stores are not usually among the best.

Yes, I would recommend getting it appraised immediately upon purchase and while you’re within the return period of the seller, and I recommend this regardless of whether you buy online or from a nearby storefront. It both serves as a quality control step to your purchase and a benchmark of the details and the condition at the beginning of your insurance policy. I make a significant portion of my living with exactly this sort of work so I presume it comes as no surprise that I recommend it.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 22 May 2010 - 03:40 PM.

[davidelevi]

Mark - to your question #3: colour difference of 1-2 grades either way is fine. Clarity is usually less of a problem with smaller stones anyway. As for cut, the main thing is that they match each other and you like the effect they create with the centre.

One last point/question: why are you terrified of online dealers? Many of them have a perfectly respectable physical store, but use the internet as another channel to reach customers.

Edited by davidelevi, 22 May 2010 - 02:08 PM.

[mhova21]

davidelevi, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 06:06 PM, said:

Mark - to your question #3: colour difference of 1-2 grades either way is fine. Clarity is usually less of a problem with smaller stones anyway. As for cut, the main thing is that they match each other and you like the effect they create with the centre.

One last point/question: why are you terrified of online dealers? Many of them have a perfectly respectable physical store, but use the internet as another channel to reach customers.

I suppose it isn't the dealers themselves, but the thought of making a purchase without actually being able to physically see/touch the stone and or setting. The more I search, the more difficult it is becoming to determine how big/small I want the center stone in relation to the side stones without being able to actually see the ring.

[davidelevi]

You will have the same problem if you decide (sensibly, in my view) to widen your search from ready made rings at a nearby dealer. Even seeing or handling many loose stones physically is not going to get you very far. Choosing a good dealer will help you not only find a better quality centre stone, but build a better ring overall. Use their expertise - they have done it before, you haven't.

Couple of suggestions in that regard:

0. Make a list of possible dealers. Exclude big chains: as you found out, at the bottom end (Jared's, Kay's) it's about fast turnover and selling what you have in store; at the top end (Tiffany, Cartier) you pay for a lot of extras that you may not want or be able to afford. This leaves well reputed firms that deal over the internet, and local independents/chains.

1. Whittle down the list. Call people - phone or face to face - and get a feeling for whether you'd like to work with them. Do they treat you as a punter to sell to, or as a potential long range customer? Look at what they have in the store or on their website: do you like the style of what you see? Do you like the quality of the stones and of the metalwork? At this stage ignore your ring, except in the broadest sense; tell them you are looking to build an engagement ring. Your objective is to decide who to work with, not that of choosing the stone or the ring.

1. Forget for the moment about what it is going to look like. Focus on finding the centre stone first, and get the rest of the ring built around it. Despite the fact that 5-7k is a lot of money in absolute terms, it is not going to buy a lot in diamondland. Particularly if you want to get a centre stone over 1.00 ct. and that is your total budget (centre, sides and setting). Get the dealer(s) to help you navigate the trade-offs between cut, clarity and colour. If the dealer you have decided on is located near you, ask him to bring in a few options to choose. If you are working long distance, most dealers that deal online are well skilled with photography and movie taking. Get them to send you images of a few options, and work from there. Don't be afraid to ask for more images, or even to arrange for one trip to make the final choice (in which case, ask the dealer to be ready to assist you with phases 2 and 3 at the same time - although you may not decide everything there and then, you want to narrow options down as much as possible while you are there).

2. Once you have the main stone, you can start looking at options for sides. If you want to experiment with proportions and layouts, PowerPoint or another similar graphics package is useful for getting an idea - you can specify size of the various shapes to be in proportion to the various options (usually scaled up x5 or x10). Even just a sketch with the various stones represented by their outlines is quite helpful to figure out whether some shapes and sizes work together well. Some dealers have CAD rendering facilities which can produce very life-like images of the finished product. I'm not suggesting you base your choice only or mainly on this, but if you have difficulty in imagining things, you may want to use availability of this type of service/product as one of your criteria.

3. Same process for setting style, which you may want to choose together with the sides. Ask the dealer to show you what they would do/have done in the past with similar stones. Don't be afraid to bring in your ideas or inspiration from magazines and adverts. Most things can be used as sources, although many bench jewellers will not be too happy if you ask them to copy somebody else's work in the minutest details.

4. Don't forget to check with your other intended half that what you are doing is making sense. Even if you want to have an element of surprise, asking about shapes, colours and level of decoration/detail is not impossible. You can even involve her in phases 0 and 1 above, and keep her in the dark about what follows, but by then you should have

[mhova21]

Well, after lots of searching both online and in person, I finally decided to custom design the setting through Whiteflash. The setting isn't extravagant like most custom designs seem to be, but it has everything I was looking for. Center stone will be a 0.982 ACA princess. 0.6carats of accent stones. Platinum (PT900/Ir) band, 3.0mm width, and the inside/bottom of the band will have the phrase "Live Laugh Love" engraved in cursive. Ring size is

[davidelevi]

Looks really nice. Congratulations on the choice!

Let us know how it goes, and photos of the finished item would be most appreciated - especially on her hand!

[HeartAndStone]

That's a dazzling choice Mark! And the ring size is 4.5?
You finally found the 'perfect' e-ring! Good job! I'm happy for you.
The center stone is magnificent and it blends with the side stones continuously!
Now, I can say this exceptional design rocks the princess cut!

[DiamondDaze]

Beautiful Ring! Glad to see that you ended up with a platinum setting as well, I find that the weight of the platinum ring helps to add physical significance to the emotional meaning of the ring. Given that so many people "settle" for white gold, im curious what motivated you to spring for platinum?

All the best, I'm sure she'll love it!

[jan]

mhova21, on Saturday, May 22 2010, 03:53 PM, said:

Thanks for the help thus far.
I went to a few of the typical jewelers (Zales, Kays, Jared) and I have not been very impressed. I liked one of the Zales settings (below), but even to my untrained eye the center stone looked terrible. Not much sparkle and I could see a yellowish tint. The jeweler I talked to also seemed to push me away from purchasing a loose center stone, and then claimed he wasn't sure if a princess cut could be inserted....I don't see why this would be a problem. I was impressed by some of the Leo stones at Kay's, but they also made it seem as if it would be a hassle if I wanted a larger Leo stone rather than the 5/8carat that was already in the setting.




Overall, I think I would be better off picking a loose diamond to get what I really want. I believe I've narrowed my criteria to 0.8 to 1carat center stone (approx 1.5carat total weight), color: D-G, clarity VS1-VS2, and as for cut....well, an ideal cut would be nice lol I now realize that I may be looking at somewhere between $6000-$7000 for all this, at least that is what the less than trusty jewelers have told me.

While I am basically terrified of purchasing from an online dealer, it seems like it may be the way to go for higher quality and lower price. So I have a couple additional questions:

1) How does ring and stone maintenance typically play out when going this route? Can I simply choose a local jeweler and buy a maintenance/insurance plan through them that will cover cleanings, repairs, re-sizing, rhodium re-plating, etc.?

2) Do you typically have the ring appraised afterward to verify its quality and basically make sure you didn't get ripped off?

3) How do I handle differences in the 4C's between the main stone and side accent stones? For example, I would assume you wouldn't want to pair a D color center with I or J sides, but what would be an acceptable, yet non-distracting difference in grades?

That is really weird, we just put up a ring that is similar to your photo, however our's is a Tiffany replica ring. with a .95 ct. center ideal cut diamond VS2 H with a GIA lab report and the mounting has .48 ct. of diamonds in VS G-H color set in platinum.