6 replies to this topic

[guitarmonkey55]

Hello there, im new here and Im sure you get lots of people wandering in here asking pretty much this same thing so sorry in advance!

So im about to get engaged and currently shopping for that special ring. I have been shopping with my gf and we have been visiting tons of jewelry stores and learned a lot already, but it seems that the more i see and the more i read and research the more my head swims about what to buy! We were initially looking at rings that were fairly ornate but didnt have nice stones in them, and once we got into the stores and saw some nice rocks we realized thats what we are after(first experienced this at a DeBeers)

After much shopping and research I have decided I want to get her an 18k platinum solitaire with some small sidestones (i have the setting picked out already, at least i think so!), and a stone in the neighborhood of .5-.7 carats. My problem is deciding the best way (for me) to get the diamond.

Of the stones that I saw, as Im sure is the case with everyone, I find the most appealing feature of nice stones to be the ones that are very brilliant and have a lot of what I think is referred to as fire and brilliance. the ones that sparkle a lot of beautiful light everywhere.

My questions are two main parts:

1)how do the factors such as color and clarity effect, if at all, the light reflecting qualities of the diamond? I know that a lot of this comes from the cut, but I just would like to know how, if at all, the other factors influence the brilliance of the diamond. I have seen many diamonds in person now after shopping, but what are most peoples opinions on a good economical color and clarity for a diamond in my size range and with good light reflection? Im not after a million dollar stone here, but im happy dropping some decent cash on the stone.

2)where and how can i get the best price for this stone? Am i better off buying from the jeweler I buy the ring from? Buying online at a shop like blue nile or mondera or something else? anything i am missing?

also one last question - can someone explain hearts and arrows to me? this is not a term I have come across on many websites that explain diamond characteristics but I see people talking about it alot here on forums and several other places. this seems relevant to my desire to have a diamond that shines a lot?

thanks so much for your help! This is all overwhelming and exciting, and I want to make sure I get a stone that we will both be happy with for years to come!

[edit] also i forgot to mention i want a round cut diamond. thats important!

Edited by guitarmonkey55, 06 February 2010 - 10:03 PM.

[davidelevi]

Welcome!

You are doing a very sensible thing by looking at diamonds and rings before making up your mind that you want an F-VVS1 or "better". All the more sensible by exploring things with your future other half.

Now to your questions:

1. Not at all. As long as clarity is above I2, it has no impact whatsoever on brilliance and sparkle, although the overall transparency or crystal of the stone (which is not graded) does. Colour truly is a matter of personal preference, and it never has an impact on sparkle. The most important thing to get right in terms of liveliness is cut.

As to what's a sensible compromise, colour really is down to taste. Most people that want a colourless look are very happy with a stone in the H-I range; some prefer warmer whites down to K-L, and others want the icy appearance of D-F stones. Whatever you decide on, it's your decision, and don't let marketing enter the equation ("D is better than H" - not quite; D is more expensive, but in no way better).

For clarity, the issue of value is related to how much do you value your time. An eye-clean I1 has the lowest price, but it is difficult to locate. A VS2 or higher short-circuits the work of finding a stone with no visible inclusions, but you pay for the privilege.

2. The best price is almost certainly available online: online vendors have significantly lower overheads that they pass in good part to the customers as lower prices. Having said this, there are advantages in buying stone and setting together, and/or in buying items from a physical store where you can see and compare prior to making a decision.

My recommendation is to choose the dealer before you start picking stones; most dealers have access to the same settings (or to someone that can make something very similar), and the type of stone that you are considering is readily available. What is not so available is personal trust and confidence - which when coupled to skill and expertise makes the purchasing of jewellery a lot less fraught with uncertainties.

From that point of view, while I find the price and convenience of online shopping unbeatable, I also find the lack of knowledge and "corporate uniformity" of the large online retailers don't inspire me with confidence either. I'm very happy picking items from the shortlist of a few respected online vendors that can also go and find things for me if they haven't got it in stock right away.

3. Hearts and arrows refers to a pattern created by the cutting of the diamond. This article has an in-depth explanation of how they are formed. http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/...2&zoneid=28

As to their importance, they generally denote care being taken in cutting the diamond to a very symmetrical standard, but are no guarantee that the diamond will perform well or better than a non-H&A diamond. In addition, while some like the very symmetrical look of an H&A round, others (including myself) are more attracted by older styles of cutting which aren't necessarily so regular. In reading through the H&A article above, bear in mind that Whiteflash - excellent though they are - have a vested interest since they make and purchase H&A diamonds!!!

Apologies for the long post; please keep coming back with more questions, if you have them, and good luck in the search.

[guitarmonkey55]

ok excellent to hear. a few more questions:

Im looking at james allen right now as I see several stones on there that I like. one of them is an H color VS1 .43 ct stone that has dimensions pretty close to a .5 ct. I notice theres a big price gap at .5 so i dont mind going below it. this claims to be an ags ideal cut with hearts and arrows patterning, which is what is drawing me to it. heres a link

[url="http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1261643.asp"][url]http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-I...ond-1261643.asp[/url][/url]

that stone is actually quite cheaper than what I had initially budgeted for a stone, but looking at the ~.5ct neighbhorhood it seems like the stones are significantly higher priced just because they broke .5, when as far as dimensions go they arent that much larger. As I plan on upgrading this stone down the road anyways when I get out of law school especially, the size isnt a huge deal I just want a pretty stone that will look good in the setting I have chosen. Does anyone have any insight about this particular stone, what the positives/negatives are or just any general advice or insight about this one vs I should look at something else.

also as far as the color and clarity - I read that in a platinum ring setting that an H is going to look quite good, and I am not necessarily hung up on getting as close to D as I possibly can. Clarity wise, I looked at several si1 and si2 stones on JA that didnt appear to have large inclusions on their photos - when you find stones like that where you can see theres no blatant inclusions in the photos are they pretty safe to say they are nice stones?

Edited by guitarmonkey55, 07 February 2010 - 09:00 PM.

[davidelevi]

The 0.50 and 0.70 ct. weight are significant thresholds for price - if you can stay below, it definitely helps!

Bear in mind that weight / visual size is not a linear relationship, so a 10% increase in weight is often just visible with the two stones side-by-side.

Colour-wise, I encourage you to keep your options open. Always bear in mind that many differences in colour will decrease a lot once the stone is set, particularly if it is well cut, and in any case they will be imperceptible unless you have a "reference" right next to the stone you have bought.

To assess eye-cleanness, a photograph is better than a grading report, but neither one is sufficient. You need to work out what "eye clean" means to you (what distance, what lighting, what position should the stone be: side or top or both), and ask of someone at JA (or wherever) to look at the stone and tell you what they see.

The stone you picked is a nice one. Nothing that screams out, and good idealscope/hearts images.

[diamondsbylauren]

Speaking as a fellow "guitarmonkey".....
I'd suggest looking at entire rings as opposed to trying to engineer the ring yourself.
You mentioned "18k platinum" which is mixing terms.
I suspect you want all platinum- unless you want a yellow gold top.
I feel that the matching and ring construction are every bit as important as the difference between VS2 and SI1 in the finished product......
Did you want a simple three stone design, or one with some detail work, like this:

[jan]

guitarmonkey55, on Sunday, Feb 7 2010, 11:59 PM, said:

ok excellent to hear. a few more questions:

Im looking at james allen right now as I see several stones on there that I like. one of them is an H color VS1 .43 ct stone that has dimensions pretty close to a .5 ct. I notice theres a big price gap at .5 so i dont mind going below it. this claims to be an ags ideal cut with hearts and arrows patterning, which is what is drawing me to it. heres a link

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-I...ond-1261643.asp

that stone is actually quite cheaper than what I had initially budgeted for a stone, but looking at the ~.5ct neighbhorhood it seems like the stones are significantly higher priced just because they broke .5, when as far as dimensions go they arent that much larger. As I plan on upgrading this stone down the road anyways when I get out of law school especially, the size isnt a huge deal I just want a pretty stone that will look good in the setting I have chosen. Does anyone have any insight about this particular stone, what the positives/negatives are or just any general advice or insight about this one vs I should look at something else.

also as far as the color and clarity - I read that in a platinum ring setting that an H is going to look quite good, and I am not necessarily hung up on getting as close to D as I possibly can. Clarity wise, I looked at several si1 and si2 stones on JA that didnt appear to have large inclusions on their photos - when you find stones like that where you can see theres no blatant inclusions in the photos are they pretty safe to say they are nice stones?

Since you plan on upgrading in the future, it might not hurt to look for someone that actually has a liberal upgrade policy.

Did you see this one?

http://www.dbof.com/jewelry/round-ideal-he...ws-50-ct-vs2-g/

[denverappraiser]

Lots of good answers above but I want to add a bit to this one:

guitarmonkey55, on Sunday, Feb 7 2010, 12:52 AM, said:

2)where and how can i get the best price for this stone? Am i better off buying from the jeweler I buy the ring from? Buying online at a shop like blue nile or mondera or something else? anything i am missing?

The online dealers are, in general, significantly more price competitive than the local shops but there’s a considerable advantage associated with buying the diamond, the ring and the assembly labor from the same source if you can arrange it. The problem is one of liability and fingerpointing if a problem comes up. Is it the result of poor craftsmanship by the setter, a defective mounting, a defective diamond or a combination of these? If they all came from the same place it’s an academic question but if there are 2 or 3 suppliers involved then it can affect who’s warranty, if any, comes into play.

Most people who go with the online shops do so for the the prices. If the shop you choose has (or can get) what you want in terms of the remainder of the piece, I recommend buying it from them as well. If you buy the mounting somewhere else, presumably because it's so much easier to buy a ring in person, I recommend getting the setting work done by that jeweler rather than using a 3rd source and the last choice is to have 3 different suppliers.

Show your proposed diamond to the jeweler who will be setting it while you’re still within the return period of the stone so that if there’s any concerns it’s possible to address them while you can still do something about it. In each case I recommend having the appraisal done by an independent 3rd party both because it tends to produce better documentation and it serves as a quality control check on the others. The more people you have involved the more important this step becomes.

Neil