7 replies to this topic

[White_GTS]

Hi,

Im currently in the market looking for a loose diamond. I'm from Toronto Canada so most diamonds comes with Gem Scan certs with the few with GIA certs. My friend sells precious stones to a lot of independant shops in Toronto and he can get me great rates (so he says) since he has a good relationship with the store owners. He informed me that he can get me GemScan or GIA if I wish.

I would like to know out of the 4 C's which one is ok to go lower on to get a bit bigger diamond.

I'm planning to get a D color, Ideal Cut from GIA(top cut) or Excellent from Gem Scan (top cut) with a SI2 color.

I figure I can push from a 1.05 carat to about 1.25 carat but going to a SI2 instead of a VS2 color diamond. As you can see I am thinking going with a lower calarity is ok as long as I have the best cut. I dont wanna lose the shine of the diamond.

By looking at a D color, ideal cut or excellent cut and a SI2 is it consider a bad spec or should I avoid the SI2 and stick with VS2 clarity?

My budget is $6500CAD for the stone.

I been so far quoted with a 1.2 D color, Excellent Cut from Gem Scan with a SI2 color. This is being sold for $6350CAD I'm waiting to see some GIA prices at the moment. I looked at this 1.2 Carat diamond and to me it looks eye clean and it is very bright and shiny. When I loop it I can see a black dot in a corner but without a loop I cant see it. If I look at the diamond from the bottom or from the side I can see a spec but I beleive when they say eye clean it is looking at the diamond from the top and not from the side or from the bottom.

Any help would be nice.

Edited by White_GTS, 05 November 2009 - 05:21 PM.

[denverappraiser]

It’s up to you to decide what areas you are willing to flex on but I’m curious, how did you decide upon the D color paired with an SI2 clarity? That’s an unusual combination.

Clarity is graded from the face up position. Most people grade 'eye clean' from the same position, in good lighting, and from about a foot away but do be aware of who the grader is ... 'eye clean' is not part of the GIA grading scale.

The top cut grade from GIA is called 'excellent'. If it says 'ideal' it's from somewhere else.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 06 November 2009 - 06:51 AM.

[SPW]

To push to SI2 from VS2 at the diamond size you are looking at, the answer would be very dependant on the diamond cut/shape. Reason for saying this is that, with the naked eye it will be highly unlikely one would be able to see any inclusions in an SI2 Round. However, if you were looking at an SI2 Emerald cut with a wide open 'window' in the top, there is every chance you would be able to see inclusions within the diamond.

The other factor one needs to consider is who graded the diamond. GIA, EGL, etc?? GIA's SI2 grading possibly will not be the same as other lab grading - GIA seem to be more consistent with their grading and tougher. In other words, a GIA SI2 maybe a VS2 for another lab.

Agreed - D/SI2 is not usual and not a great combination. Like wise a J/IF is odd. One should always try move up and down the colour/clarity scale with equal increments. From one extreme to the other cannot offer the best out of a diamond and may well reveal this anomaly is any appraisal you may get. You need to aim for a well 'balanced' stone in every sense.

In short, there is no hard and fast rule to whether you improve on clarity, colour or carat - you need to look at the big picture and weigh up all the characteristics to make an informed decision.

[davidelevi]

Simon - again, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree

Quote

Agreed - D/SI2 is not usual and not a great combination. Like wise a J/IF is odd. One should always try move up and down the colour/clarity scale with equal increments. From one extreme to the other cannot offer the best out of a diamond and may well reveal this anomaly is any appraisal you may get. You need to aim for a well 'balanced' stone in every sense.

D/SI2 may be unusual in terms of choice, but there is nothing wrong with it. BTW - a quick search on the "for sale" db here for D/SI2 1.2x comes up with 120 stones; D/IF comes up with exactly 21. The idea that people should move "in parallel" starting at D/IF and getting to - what? K? M? R-S? Y-Z? - I3 is total and utter bullshit. Not borne out of physics (in the way inclusions and colour are generated, there is nothing relating them to each other), not borne out of market demand, not borne out of common sense.

Most people will try to balance colour with clarity, meaning that someone who really wants a D with an eye-clean SI2 is comparatively a rare bird, but there is nothing inherently wrong with such a choice. Your assertion that "it cannot offer the best out of a diamond" is completely groundless. Any SI2 inclusion - with the possible exception of a very diffused, large dark cloud in a relatively small stone - will not have any impact on light pattern reflection and refraction. If you are careful and pick the diamond in such a way that it is indeed eye clean - and there's plenty of eye-clean SI2s - you may well have a wonderful stone at a fraction of the cost of a D/IF. And at that point it's debatable which one is best...

[White_GTS]

I forgot to mention that the stone that I am looking for is a rount brilliant. The only reason why I have chosen a D color is because I want the diamond to be absolute colorless. I have decided that the cut is also very important therefore I must get the best graded cut. The only reason I was willing to get a SI2 is because if picked right they could be eye clean meaning people cant see anything wrong with it without any tools.

I understand that there is no grading term called eye clean however I want the diamond to be placed beside say a VVS2 or VS2 and no one could tell the differance by looking at it. If I pickup a diamond and I can see things wrong with it, to me I would consider it not eye clean. If I can pick a good SI2 who would know if it is a D, Excellent VS2 or VS1 without looking at certs right?

So this is the reason why I have chosen it to be a D color with a top cut.

denverappraiser,
I double checked and you are correct. The Cut is actually an excellent cut from GIA. I got the GemSan and GIA mixed up. GemScan is uses the term Ideal for their top cut.

[denverappraiser]

Sounds good. Given your specs and my take on your temperament, I think it’s a mistake to drop to SI2. Even SI1 is pushing your luck. This is based purely on what I take as questions and specifications from a perfectionist. Yeah, the prettiest flowers tend to grow near the edge of the cliff but that doesn’t mean that’s where you should always be hunting. You may be able to drop color to E or even F without seeing the difference unless you just like the idea that D is the ‘best’.

GIA-excellent covers a lot of territory and I’ve no idea what GS means by ‘ideal’. Given the D-E/VS2-SI1/1.2+/GIAx specs and your Canadian address, which means you’ve got consider the VAT in the cost, I don’t think you’ve got enough budgeted. What to drop? Personally I would probably go with the color or the size but it’s up to you and you seem more attached to that than the clarity. Another choice, of course, is to raise the budget.

Neil

[White_GTS]

denverappraiser, on Friday, Nov 6 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

Sounds good. Given your specs and my take on your temperament, I think it’s a mistake to drop to SI2. Even SI1 is pushing your luck. This is based purely on what I take as questions and specifications from a perfectionist. Yeah, the prettiest flowers tend to grow near the edge of the cliff but that doesn’t mean that’s where you should always be hunting. You may be able to drop color to E or even F without seeing the difference unless you just like the idea that D is the ‘best’.

GIA-excellent covers a lot of territory and I’ve no idea what GS means by ‘ideal’. Given the D-E/VS2-SI1/1.2+/GIAx specs and your Canadian address, which means you’ve got consider the VAT in the cost, I don’t think you’ve got enough budgeted. What to drop? Personally I would probably go with the color or the size but it’s up to you and you seem more attached to that than the clarity. Another choice, of course, is to raise the budget.

Neil

I will ask to see stones with F and E color, top cut and have the size drop to about 1.1 with a clarity of VS2 to see if I can find any good deals. Hopefully with my budget I could find something in that range.

Thanks for your advice.

[jmdatcs]

I am a total layman here, but here is my 2 cents.
What it looks like is all that really matters. Look at some GIA G-I stones. If you can see any color, you have better eyes than mine. You can take the money you save there and put it into cut and size.
Stick with the excellent/ideal cut though.

Here is a link to the specs of what I just got, there is a link to a video of it at the bottom of the post.
[url="http://www.diamond.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=5369"][url]http://www.diamond.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=5369[/url][/url]

Edited by jmdatcs, 06 November 2009 - 12:08 PM.