12 replies to this topic

[dstt]

Hi,

I'm trying to find a nice wedding ring with a grad students budget living off a scholarship. I'm looking for a ring with a center stone and two side stones and the ring itself would be made of 18K yellow gold. The diamonds should be round. I have a budget of $3000 max for the whole ring, so my problem is trying to find something that would look as good as possible with that budget.

My questions are as follows:

- What clarity, color etc. should I go for?
- What size of stones could I reasonably get?
- How much should I expect to pay for the gold ring itself?

My understanding is that I shouldn't go below color G and that having stones with ideal cut is more important than getting large stones. Is there any visible difference between VS2 and SI1 or in general between SI1 and any higher clarity? I know the definition for SI1 is that the flaws shouldn't be visible to the naked eye, but does this mean that I can't see the flaws in the diamond, but there is a perceivable difference in the "sparkliness" of the diamond? I have tried to figure out price ranges by looking at some diamond search engines that some jewelers seem to have on their website. I was wondering how close those prices are usually to what you finally end up paying for the stones?

Any help would be much appreciated. This seems to be a lot harder than I initially thought it would be. If anyone can recommend a trustworthy jeweler in NYC that would be great too (of course I take recommendations with some grain of salt assuming someone will recommend himself ).

Thanks in advance!

Edited by dstt, 26 October 2009 - 07:22 PM.

[davidelevi]

Let me start by addressing your questions on clarity and price.

The clarity grade is only an indication of the "quantity" of inclusions/blemishes a stone has, not a guide to their visibility. Most SI1 stones are eye-clean (meaning the unaided eye will not see the imperfection once the stone is set), however some are not. Pretty much all VS2 (99.9%) are eye clean, and definitely all VS1 are; conversely, a good % of SI2 stones are not. From that point of view, clarity grades higher than VS2 are marketing - you won't see the difference without a loupe. In terms of affecting brilliance, any clarity grade below I2 is unlikely to be a problem - however, diffused clouds may cause some SI2/I1 stones to be less sparkly; as for eye-cleanliness, unfortunately the only way to tell reliably is to look at the stone.

Price-wise, online prices tend to be pretty competitive, also because they are very transparently set. I'd say that given today's economy you may be able to negotiate a little, but I wouldn't expect huge shifts.

Now - choice of the stone(s) and budget:

Unless you are (or she is) dead set on a three-stone ring, given your budget I'd suggest saving the $3-500 in a decent pair of sidestones and invest into a nicer main stone in a solitaire setting. The ring itself will be $2-300 for a nice, well built solitaire setting (or more, if gold keeps rising!), and $100 or so more for a three stone.

On colour - it really is personal preference. I recommend that you go to a Tiffany's or other decent jeweller, and look at diamonds in different colour grades in different light conditions. Bear in mind that - apart from personal preferences, which mean a lot - a well cut stone will look quite a lot whiter (and nicer) than its grade may imply. Part of this is optics, part is marketing: the difference between any colour grade and the next isn't large, and often can only be seen in particular conditions (loose stone on the side, against a white background, a reference stone next to it, controlled lighting).

Whatever you do - don't skimp on cut quality. It's cut that gives the stone its life. A badly cut D/IF is a poor substitute for an ice cube: it's not even cool.

Size is the part of the equation that falls out from having decided everything else... for example, assuming a budget of $2500-2800, and always picking very well cut, eye-clean stones, you could pick combinations such as:

Relatively high colour, top clarity: 0.58 G VS1
Low colour/clarity, but big: 1.02 L SI2
Trade off size and colour: 0.75 H SI1

All of these are perfectly nice stones, on sale now. They will look quite different to each other, and I would encourage you to look at similar ones to figure out what is it that you (and your future fiancee) like.

Finally, recommendations: David at DiamondsbyLauren, Barry and Judah at Excel Diamonds and Jon at GoodOldGold are in New York (or Long Island), all have a reputation for honesty, customer service and a good eye for picking stones. Give all of them a call, and see whose style you like best. Good luck, and let us know how you get on!

[dstt]

OK, thanks a lot for the good tips. As a mathematician I was already aware of the fact that the cut is the most important factor as brilliance is a direct consequence of shape and refraction index (the second being pretty much constant). It seems like the best plan would then be to try to find a really well cut SI1, G-colored stone as a center stone with no visible flaws.

I was also wondering if most stores only have ready made rings where they just put the diamond or can you actually completely customize the ring? I am somewhat new to the way jewelry stores operate here as I just recently moved to the US. We already have an engagement ring and would need to have a ring that matches well with it. The engagement ring was done by letting us choose custom dimensions for the ring i.e. width, thickness etc. Thus, it might have somewhat nonstandard dimensions and the wedding ring would need to match it as she will be wearing both.

[jan]

To give you an example for comparison, we have one made in 18kt with platinum prongs that has an AGS .60 ct. SI1 H center diamond ideal cut with hearts and arrows and side diamonds for a total weight of .30 ct. in SI1 H for a total weight of .90 ct. for $3195.

[dstt]

Thanks for info. Does anyone know a good jeweler in Philadelphia? My fiancee is living in NYC, but I'm in Philly myself, so I might check out some places here too.

[davidelevi]

dstt, on Tuesday, Oct 27 2009, 04:59 PM, said:

OK, thanks a lot for the good tips. As a mathematician I was already aware of the fact that the cut is the most important factor as brilliance is a direct consequence of shape and refraction index (the second being pretty much constant). It seems like the best plan would then be to try to find a really well cut SI1, G-colored stone as a center stone with no visible flaws.

I was also wondering if most stores only have ready made rings where they just put the diamond or can you actually completely customize the ring? I am somewhat new to the way jewelry stores operate here as I just recently moved to the US. We already have an engagement ring and would need to have a ring that matches well with it. The engagement ring was done by letting us choose custom dimensions for the ring i.e. width, thickness etc. Thus, it might have somewhat nonstandard dimensions and the wedding ring would need to match it as she will be wearing both.

Most stores - by far - aren't actually bench (manufacturing) jewellers, but they will usually have access to someone who can make custom items. Having said that, the labour cost involved in manufacturing to your spec (as opposed to taking a standard - albeit nice - item and simply setting the stone into it) can easily double the cost of your ring.

ETA: Sorry - can't help with anyone in Philly. If you are not keen on buying online, though, I'd think a trip to NY would be worth it.

Edited by davidelevi, 27 October 2009 - 12:30 PM.

[dstt]

davidelevi, on Tuesday, Oct 27 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

Most stores - by far - aren't actually bench (manufacturing) jewellers, but they will usually have access to someone who can make custom items. Having said that, the labour cost involved in manufacturing to your spec (as opposed to taking a standard - albeit nice - item and simply setting the stone into it) can easily double the cost of your ring.

ETA: Sorry - can't help with anyone in Philly. If you are not keen on buying online, though, I'd think a trip to NY would be worth it.

I actually went today to check out the store here in Philly that was recommended through the "find local jeweler" link on the top of the page. I asked for the price of a product with the specs I gave here and he ended up telling me it would be around $5000. He only had a 0.5ct EVVS1, ideal cut, to show which would have been $3250 and the side stones without any cert would have been $1100. He also told me that they don't classify cuts for stones less than 0.5ct, so he could only tell me that the side stones were SI2. When I gave the price quotes I had for some stones on bluenile.com he asked me if they have GIA certs and when I answered yes, he looked at me as if I was out of my mind and just walked away.

So I'm wondering if this is pretty much the expected reaction and if those prices are severely below anything that you could find in a local store? If this is the case, then I would probably end up getting the stones online and then find someone who could make the ring.

So should I consider buying the stones online? I'm just wondering how much I can go wrong if I just buy e.g. a VS2 (not taking the risk with SI1 not having seen it), G color, signature ideal from bluenile if the other option is paying the same for something a lot smaller? I can hardly think that there can be anything wrong with such a stone? Is there anything regarding the dimensions of the stone that I should take into account? I will still contact the two stores you recommended, but otherwise buying the diamonds from bluenile might be the right choice.

[davidelevi]

Reaction: perhaps a bit abrupt, but not unexpected, given what you have confronted him with.

0.50 E VVS1 / GIA go online for between $2500 and $2200 (excluding tails in the distribution of prices), which is a fair amount less than you were quoted. On the other hand, you aren't seeing the goods, there is a fair amount of variation in cut quality, the store seller may offer other services/guarantees that are not available through an online purchase (e.g. repurchase/cash back; upgrade policy, ...) and there is usually a bit more flex in "brick & mortar" pricing than there is online. In all fairness, you have to bear in mind that all of this costs more money than having a website that lists stones that you don't own (which is what for example Blue Nile does).

Incidentally, it's quite true that side stones - small ones in particular - are usually graded by the store and don't have a report. Having said that, asking $1100 for a pair of 0.15 (G-H?) SI2 plus a YG setting is a bit taking the mickey...

The issue in buying from Blue Nile in particular is that they drop-ship - that is, they never set eyes on the diamond, but ask the cutter to deliver it to you. Apart from the problem with clarity (where you may miss on saving, but you can buy "VS2" insurance), the big issue is the quality of the cut.

It's practically impossible to tell whether a stone is going to be well cut simply based on what is on the grading report; you can rule some out using that, but in an ideal world you want to see the stone to rule it in, or you want someone who is a trusted expert to see it. Again, you can buy some insurance in the form of an "Excellent" cut grade from GIA, or an AGS-0, but it's not 100% foolproof (if you are happy with 90%, though, go for it).

The three stores I mentioned above all sell online, but also will show stones to clients on appointment. Most importantly they will all look at different stones for you, and help you select one (mostly in an unbiased fashion - except for personal taste!)

Edited by davidelevi, 27 October 2009 - 01:52 PM.

[dstt]

OK, so I've spent a few hours looking at different settings online. The solitaire setting seems to be a good option, because it is a lot cheaper. There also doesn't seem to be too many options for 3-stone rings made of 18k gold. Most gold settings also seem very bulky, which I assume is a consequence of having to somehow connect two different metals together instead of having just one piece. This is probably the nicest 3-stone setting I've seen so far:

[url="http://www.diamondideals.com//images/items/44_lrg.jpg"][url]http://www.diamondideals.com//images/items/44_lrg.jpg[/url][/url]

Unfortunately, it's about $1600 which is approximately 2 times as much as I'd like to invest in the setting. Has anyone seen something similar in the $800-$1000 range? I'm also wondering if you can generally see any color at all in an H diamond if it's in a yellow gold setting? I would assume that the ring itself reflects some yellow light through the diamond which pretty much makes any color from the diamond itself completely negligible.

Excel Diamonds had a really nice looking solitaire replica of a Tiffany ring, so that seems to be the best option for a solitaire ring so far. I'll probably schedule an appointment with them pretty soon. They also seemed to sell diamonds at prices comparable to bluenile, so I don't end up paying incredible amounts for the stones.

[davidelevi]

Some of the bulkiness is due to photography... bear in mind that what you are seeing in a photo like the one you posted is something which is magnified 3 to 4 times, and there has to be some metal to support the stones. Soldering white to yellow gold is not particularly conducive to bulkiness in itself.

You won't see colour in a (properly graded) H colour diamond, no matter what you set it in, unless you have an E colour diamond right next to it.

[Britani17]

dstt, on Sunday, Nov 1 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

OK, so I've spent a few hours looking at different settings online. The solitaire setting seems to be a good option, because it is a lot cheaper. There also doesn't seem to be too many options for 3-stone rings made of 18k gold. Most gold settings also seem very bulky, which I assume is a consequence of having to somehow connect two different metals together instead of having just one piece. This is probably the nicest 3-stone setting I've seen so far:

http://www.diamondid...tems/44_lrg.jpg

Unfortunately, it's about $1600 which is approximately 2 times as much as I'd like to invest in the setting. Has anyone seen something similar in the $800-$1000 range? I'm also wondering if you can generally see any color at all in an H diamond if it's in a yellow gold setting? I would assume that the ring itself reflects some yellow light through the diamond which pretty much makes any color from the diamond itself completely negligible.

Excel Diamonds had a really nice looking solitaire replica of a Tiffany ring, so that seems to be the best option for a solitaire ring so far. I'll probably schedule an appointment with them pretty soon. They also seemed to sell diamonds at prices comparable to bluenile, so I don't end up paying incredible amounts for the stones.

Here are a couple pictures of rings that we do. We can get the most value out of your budget with great quality ideal cut diamonds too I also agree with David. An H color faces up white and shouldn't be a problem in the mounting. Our diamond prices are also comparable to bluenile, if not better, with service you can't get from them. Also, we have an outstanding upgrade policy that is like a permanent credit at our store until you decide to upgrade if you choose to do so. If you want you can check out the website www.dbof.com

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[dstt]

Nice. The ring below is really beautiful and is pretty much exactly what we where looking for. How much does that setting cost?

[jan]

dstt, on Monday, Nov 2 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

Nice. The ring below is really beautiful and is pretty much exactly what we where looking for. How much does that setting cost?

That is a picture of the ring I referenced above:

To give you an example for comparison, we have one made in 18kt with platinum prongs that has an AGS .60 ct. SI1 H center diamond ideal cut with hearts and arrows and side diamonds for a total weight of .30 ct. in SI1 H for a total weight of .90 ct. for $3195.