10 replies to this topic

[shady71]

Earlier this year we were shopping for diamond to replace a smaller stone that had been lost from my existing setting. A dear friend has purchased many diamond pieces from a home-based dealer friend of hers so I told him what I was looking for and he got in several stones for me to choose from. We selected and purchased as follows:

Brilliant Round
2.47ct
Diameter 8.30 x 8.34 mm
Total Depth 5.56 mm
Symmetry Excellent
Polish Very Good
Clarity SI1
Color J
Flourescence None
Cert issued by IGL

Paid $9100 plus a $150 for a platinum head and setting it in my mounting. I am very pleased with how it looks but...

Did I overpay?? If so, by how much?? I was reluctant to buy online and felt more secure doing business face to face and seeing before I bought, but wonder how much extra this might have cost me??

shady

[denverappraiser]

Months after the fact is not the time to be asking these questions. It sounds like you were happy with the service and with the stone you received and we would need far more information in order to give an opinion. Grading details are important and therefore it’s important to identify in whom you are placing your trust. In your case it’s a home based dealer and a lab I’ve never heard of. This doesn’t make them wrong but it does raise a cause for suspicion. If you are less than 100% confident that you were treated well and got what you paid for, hire an expert of your own to grade the stone and to provide you with a value conclusion as it relates to a particular market. Where are you and I’ll try and recommend an independent appraiser in your area?

Neil

[shady71]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Nov 2 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

Where are you and I’ll try and recommend an independent appraiser in your area?
Neil

Southeast Florida, West Palm Beach

[denverappraiser]

I've never met him in person but I've heard good things about this fellow.

Chuck Stoddard
Diamond Appraisal by Stoddard
1098 Palmetto Road
West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Ph: 561-683-0971

If you decide to hire him, do please come back and tell us how it went.

Neil

[davidelevi]

Ultimately the value of something is what the two parties - buyer and seller - are willing to agree. So - based on that - no, you didn't overpay.

Did you get a nice stone? You like it, and that's what matters.

An IGL report is - to use some understatement - of limited reliability in telling you what you have got and it quite literally tells you (and us) nothing about the cut except that at 66% total depth the stone is considerably deeper than what is normally considered a well cut stone.

A comparison with other diamonds depends on what the grade would be when the stone is graded by a reliable lab such as GIA or AGSL. If what you have is actually a GIA J/SI1, you have got yourself a great deal - 2.5 ct stones with those grades go between $13,500 and 20,000 depending on how well cut and eye-clean they are. Unfortunately, I think this is most unlikely to be the case.

If what you have is a GIA K/SI2 with a fair cut grade (still charitable assumptions), you have paid what you would expect to pay at an online dealer.

If the stone is a GIA J-K/I1, you have spent about $2000 more than similar stones cost online. If we get into I2 territory, regardless of colour (J or K), the difference gets to $3,000. If you have an I3 (unlikely, but possible), you have truly been ripped off, since the same stone could be bought for half the price. Same reasoning if instead of having a J or K you have a lower colour. If the cut is poor, then all the bets are off.

Unfortunately, the only way to tell is for you to send the stone to GIA or - as Neil says - to a reliable appraiser - if you really want to know. Since you seem to be happy with the stone, I would not advise this, unless your vendor has a 100% refund or upgrade policy.

Edit: modified last para to take into account posts added while typing!

Edited by davidelevi, 02 November 2008 - 11:43 AM.

[shady71]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Nov 2 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

Months after the fact is not the time to be asking these questions. It sounds like you were happy with the service and with the stone you received and we would need far more information in order to give an opinion. Grading details are important and therefore it’s important to identify in whom you are placing your trust. In your case it’s a home based dealer and a lab I’ve never heard of. This doesn’t make them wrong but it does raise a cause for suspicion.

Assuming the details I supplied are correct (or very, very close), is the price I paid "in the ballpark" or way out of line?? In a comparable size and quality, what would I have expected to pay for a GIA stone?

Edit: Thanks for the reply davidelevi, didn't see it till I sent the above!!

Edited by shady71, 02 November 2008 - 11:50 AM.

[denverappraiser]

shady71, on Sunday, Nov 2 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

Assuming the details I supplied are correct (or very, very close)

This is a huge assumption and I would be unwilling to make it. A GIA graded stone with at least a decent cut would sell for a considerable premium over an unknown but claimed equivalent and you can bet your dealer and their supplier were well aware of this. GIA charges $154 to grade a 2.47ct stone and you have to ask yourself why they weren't chosen if the dealer could raise the price by thousands of dollars with the proper pedigree if only the information presented is correct and none of the missing data is damning. Given the circumstances, I would assume that it is not correctly graded (or very, very close), it's not at least a decent cut or both. The question is how far different is it. That's one that can't be answered by anyone who hasn't seen the stone. I agree with Davide that you probably did pay a reasonable price for what you got, most of the broker type dealers offer decent enough prices, but that you did NOT get a 2.47/SI1/J. Again, if you're concerned about it and really want to know what it is, hire an expert of your own. He's also correct that this may be a wasted exercise if you're unable to do anything about it anyway. You may find yourself better off just being happy with what you have. This depends on your own temperament. There's a definite Pandora's box here. Personally, it would drive me crazy but then I'm a pretty compulsive fellow.

Neil

[shady71]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Nov 2 2008, 03:22 PM, said:

Again, if you're concerned about it and really want to know what it is, hire an expert of your own. He's also correct that this may be a wasted exercise if you're unable to do anything about it anyway. You may find yourself better off just being happy with what you have. This depends on your own temperament. There's a definite Pandora's box here. Personally, it would drive me crazy but then I'm a pretty compulsive fellow.
Neil

Neil, I share your compulsiveness

I have already call the guy you recommended and left a message about getting it appraised. If it turns out to be way off from what was represented, I have no problem going back and confronting the issue. I can live with not getting a bargain, but have a big problem being ripped of by my best friend's friend. Will let you know how it turns out!

shady

[dbsdiamonds]

The real story can be identified by what GIA would call the diamond. On another note 2.50ct typically 8.5+mm in size so the diamond you got is a tad deep. If I was a betting man I'll bet the diamond is a CE diamond. Which is not a bad thing, but helps explain the pricepointing.

As per other comments, go to [url="http://www.ags.org"]www.ags.org[/url] or who Mr. Denver said and get yourself an independent analysis so you can feel good about your purchase...



Marty

CEO/Pres

[url="http://www.dbsdiamonds.com"]www.dbsdiamonds.com[/url]

[shady71]

dbsdiamonds, on Friday, Nov 7 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

The real story can be identified by what GIA would call the diamond. On another note 2.50ct typically 8.5+mm in size so the diamond you got is a tad deep. If I was a betting man I'll bet the diamond is a CE diamond. Which is not a bad thing, but helps explain the pricepointing.

As per other comments, go to [url="http://www.ags.org"]www.ags.org[/url] or who Mr. Denver said and get yourself an independent analysis so you can feel good about your purchase...

I did go to the appraiser that Neil recommended, and as had been suggested, the stone was K/L and leaning more toward SI2. That, along with the depth, prices it in the neighborhood of the $9100 that I paid. So while I did not get a super deal on a J/SI1, I did not get ripped off either, I got what I paid for. Next time around, I will be armed with the education I have gained from this forum!

Shady

[dbsdiamonds]

shady71, on Friday, Nov 7 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

dbsdiamonds, on Friday, Nov 7 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

The real story can be identified by what GIA would call the diamond. On another note 2.50ct typically 8.5+mm in size so the diamond you got is a tad deep. If I was a betting man I'll bet the diamond is a CE diamond. Which is not a bad thing, but helps explain the pricepointing.

As per other comments, go to [url="http://www.ags.org"]www.ags.org[/url] or who Mr. Denver said and get yourself an independent analysis so you can feel good about your purchase...

I did go to the appraiser that Neil recommended, and as had been suggested, the stone was K/L and leaning more toward SI2. That, along with the depth, prices it in the neighborhood of the $9100 that I paid. So while I did not get a super deal on a J/SI1, I did not get ripped off either, I got what I paid for. Next time around, I will be armed with the education I have gained from this forum!

Shady

Excellent! I think the moral of the story is about how the person handled you in terms of actual grading. There is so much nonsense that goes on out there with the "uncerted" diamond market in terms of overgrading it really makes the industry look bad.

Marty
[url="http://www.dbsdiamonds.com"]www.dbsdiamonds.com[/url]