12 replies to this topic

[Collin]

I am located in Alexandria VA but have a connection to NH - no sales tax - but am not able to get there very often.

Is it better to deal locally?

I am considering the two attached round diamonds for insertion into a Tiffany inspired setting, also attached. The prices are 10,500 and 11,600 for the smaller and larger. I'm also considering another that I do not have the report for that is a 1.31, D, VS2 and Hearts and Arrows cut as well for 11,600.

The first two are great with the naked eye but not being skilled with the 10x, I am not sure how great they are internally.

The third one I have yet to see but is being offered by the same store in NH that will make the mounting in 14k white gold with .5 carats all for around 13k.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm having a hard time making up my mind on the center stone while also finding a place to make the mounting all for around 13k which is my max budget.

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Edited by Collin, 21 October 2008 - 08:13 AM.

[denverappraiser]

Pretty ring.

I would not recommend buying a diamond in that size or price range without reliable grading information from a credible lab.

If you've got a local dealer who had the sorts of merchandise you want, by all means give them a stab at it. There's a lot to be said for doing the whole deal with the same store so, if your chosen designer is in NH, I would call that a vote for them.

I'm not all that up on Virginia tax law but, in most states, the sales tax is a function of where you live, not where the store is located. If you buy something where the merchant doesn't collect the tax, like overseas, online or in a non-tax state, you still owe the taxes, you just have to file them yourself instead of having the merchant do it for you. Check the department of revenue website or on your tax forms for 'use tax'.

Neil

[Collin]

denverappraiser, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

Pretty ring.

I would not recommend buying a diamond in that size or price range without reliable grading information from a credible lab.

If you've got a local dealer who had the sorts of merchandise you want, by all means give them a stab at it. There's a lot to be said for doing the whole deal with the same store so, if your chosen designer is in NH, I would call that a vote for them.

I'm not all that up on Virginia tax law but, in most states, the sales tax is a function of where you live, not where the store is located. If you buy something where the merchant doesn't collect the tax, like overseas, online or in a non-tax state, you still owe the taxes, you just have to file them yourself instead of having the merchant do it for you.

Neil

I was under the impression that most H&A diamonds are done by EGL - is that not true?

From what I understand - watching people from Maine and Mass cross the border to buy stuff in NH while growing up - sales tax is just paid in the states where it is collected - unless everyone that does so, or purchases goods from Amazon and other online retailors is breaking that law?

The jeweler in VA who has the two attached stones has offered to eat the cost of 5% sales tax as well.

What can I expect to get for about 10-11k for a ring and 2k for a setting of this magnitude?

Edited by Collin, 21 October 2008 - 08:31 AM.

[denverappraiser]

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

I was under the impression that most H&A diamonds are done by EGL - is that not true?

That is not correct. More importantly, 'most' isn't the standard you should be applying. Accurate grading is a big deal. The fact that 'most' diamonds are sold without it doesn't change this.

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

From what I understand - watching people from Maine and Mass cross the border to buy stuff in NH while growing up - sales tax is just paid in the states where it is collected - unless everyone that does so, or purchases goods from Amazon and other online retailors is breaking that law?

Not everyone, but most are. Check the website of the Virginia Department of Revenue.
http://www.tax.virgi...ias=salesusetax

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

The jeweler in VA who has the two attached stones has offered to eat the cost of 5% sales tax as well.

Here's the explanation from the above revenuers website.

The use tax applies to the use, consumption or storage of tangible personal property in Virginia when the Virginia sales or use tax was not paid at the time of purchase. The use tax is computed on the cost price of the property, which is the total amount for which the property was purchased, including any services that are a part of the purchase, valued in money or otherwise, and includes any amount for which credit is given the purchaser or lessee by the seller.

It sure looks to me like you owe the tax unless the merchant or someone else is paying it for you. This is typical, by the way, and the rules are very similar in every state where I've taken the trouble to look them up.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 21 October 2008 - 08:49 AM.

[Collin]

denverappraiser, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:48 PM, said:

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

I was under the impression that most H&A diamonds are done by EGL - is that not true?

That is not correct. More importantly, 'most' isn't the standard you should be applying. Accurate grading is a big deal. The fact that 'most' diamonds are sold without it doesn't change this.

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

From what I understand - watching people from Maine and Mass cross the border to buy stuff in NH while growing up - sales tax is just paid in the states where it is collected - unless everyone that does so, or purchases goods from Amazon and other online retailors is breaking that law?

Not everyone, but most are. Check the website of the Virginia Department of Revenue.
[url="http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=salesusetax"][url]http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=salesusetax[/url][/url]

Collin, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

The jeweler in VA who has the two attached stones has offered to eat the cost of 5% sales tax as well.

Here's the explanation from the above revenuers website.

The use tax applies to the use, consumption or storage of tangible personal property in Virginia when the Virginia sales or use tax was not paid at the time of purchase. The use tax is computed on the cost price of the property, which is the total amount for which the property was purchased, including any services that are a part of the purchase, valued in money or otherwise, and includes any amount for which credit is given the purchaser or lessee by the seller.

It sure looks to me like you owe the tax unless the merchant or someone else is paying it for you. This is typical, by the way, and the rules are very similar in every state where I've taken the trouble to look them up.

Neil

So beyond any issues with sales tax...

I should avoid going with just an EGL rated stone?

Any idea what I should be able to afford going with that budget and that mounting?

Edited by Collin, 21 October 2008 - 09:28 AM.

[denverappraiser]

Yes, I would avoid relying on EGL grading entirely. Stick with GIA or AGS.

In a discount sort of environment, a correctly graded D/VS2/h&a will in the neighborhood of $13k for the center stone alone. At a store this may be as much as 20%-30% more depending on the store involved. The mounting will vary quite a bit depending on the materials and craftsmanship involved as well as the marketplace where you buy it an whether it's being custom made for you. Different craftsmen value there skills quite differently and there are a lot of different ways to cut corners on this sort of thing. I would expect the ring itself to trade for anywhere from $1000 to $5000 depending on information that isn't present. Tiffany probably charges even more.

All in all, this puts you over budget. I recommend against the strategy of using EGL because the stones appear to be cheaper. I assure you, they are not, they're just described differently. A rose by another name may still be a rose but a D is not always a D. If you need to bring the price down, consider dropping the color, clarity or both. Go to an F and it'll cut about $1000. If you are ok with an SI1, there's another $2000 or so.

At the top of the page is a link titled 'find online jeweler'. Even if you have no intention of shopping online this can be a very useful tool for seeing how the various attributes relate to each other.

Neil

[Collin]

denverappraiser, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

Yes, I would avoid relying on EGL grading entirely. Stick with GIA or AGS.

In a discount sort of environment, a correctly graded D/VS2/h&a will in the neighborhood of $13k for the center stone alone. At a store this may be as much as 20%-30% more depending on the store involved. The mounting will vary quite a bit depending on the materials and craftsmanship involved as well as the marketplace where you buy it an whether it's being custom made for you. Different craftsmen value there skills quite differently and there are a lot of different ways to cut corners on this sort of thing. I would expect the ring itself to trade for anywhere from $1000 to $5000 depending on information that isn't present. Tiffany probably charges even more.

All in all, this puts you over budget. I recommend against the strategy of using EGL because the stones appear to be cheaper. I assure you, they are not, they're just described differently. A rose by another name may still be a rose but a D is not always a D. If you need to bring the price down, consider dropping the color, clarity or both. Go to an F and it'll cut about $1000. If you are ok with an SI1, there's another $2000 or so.

At the top of the page is a link titled 'find online jeweler'. Even if you have no intention of shopping online this can be a very useful tool for seeing how the various attributes relate to each other.

Neil

Thanks for your help. I just told the jeweler that was holding these that I wasn't interested and will refocus search to stay away from EGL certified diamonds.

[jan]

Very pretty mounting. Are you planning on having one custom made? I was also going to agree, stick with GIA or AGS graded diamonds.

If you need any help in locating one or getting the mounting let me know.


Good luck with your search.

[Collin]

jan, on Tuesday, Oct 21 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

Very pretty mounting. Are you planning on having one custom made? I was also going to agree, stick with GIA or AGS graded diamonds.

If you need any help in locating one or getting the mounting let me know.


Good luck with your search.

I got another quote for about 2k to make the mounting in platinum with .5 carats with a 1.25 VS2, F color triple excellent GIA certified for a total of 12,500.

Thoughts? Don't have a scan of the cert as of now.

[jan]

Sounds about the right price. But depends on how close they really custom make the mounting to the one that you pictured. Did they show a picture of what they could make?

Edited by jan, 23 October 2008 - 09:56 AM.

[Collin]

jan, on Thursday, Oct 23 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

Sounds about the right price. But depends on how close they really custom make the mounting to the one that you pictured. Did they show a picture of what they could make?

I didn't get to that point yet. I am still looking at a store in NH, and have a meeting saturday with another local store in Alexandria VA.

Side question:

Do goldsmiths still use nickel in making 14k white gold? Would that make white gold as hard as platinum? This sounded fishy to me and I wasn't sure if it was true.

[davidelevi]

Yes, some nickel-alloyed gold is still made, though there should be limits on the % of nickel allowed. This is certainly the case by law in Europe, while I believe the US relies on a voluntary code and higher percentages are allowed.

You can get gold alloys to be as hard as a hard platinum alloy or harder. They can also get brittle and tend to lose material when scratched, whereas platinum tends to "furrow", but in general from a mechanical point of view you can obtain fairly similar properties (and without nickel).

Nickel will give considerable hardness to gold alloys, but it's not necessary to get good hardness. For example, gold/palladium/silver/copper/zinc 14k alloys can have slightly higher hardness than hard platinum alloys (e.g 950/50 ruthenium) and are nickel free. To get similar hardness (Hv > 130) in 18k white gold, nickel is generally used, though some recently developed 18k alloys containing tin and cobalt are nickel free and claim excellent hardness after heat treatment. Yellow 18k gold is generally harder than platinum without any nickel.

Edited by davidelevi, 24 October 2008 - 12:37 PM.

[Mikeyman]

You have a big budget, so I also suggest to choose GIA