8 replies to this topic

[SAgosto]

Taking denverappraiser and other's advice and started searching for GIA-EXCELLENT stones.

These are from Abazias and working with one of the employees to find me a 1.7CT/H or I/VS2 or SI1/EXCELLENT GIA stone. She noted that these particular ones do not have any yellow tint and are both eye clean. I am leaning towards the H/SI1 myself hoping the cut and the 18CT white gold setting covers anything up. Unfortunately, I cannot see the inclusions that well on the reports. I hope they are on the outside. They are all in the $11-12K price range.

Curious which you like better and importantly, why?

PDF attachments not allowed so:

[url="http://www.shawnaugust.com/File0100.pdf"]Report 1[/url]
[url="http://www.shawnaugust.com/File0101.pdf"]Report 2[/url]

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Edited by SAgosto, 17 June 2008 - 08:04 PM.

[jan]

How did they do that since they don't see the diamond or have on hand? Very curious...

You might want to take a look at Brad's post over here.

http://www.diamond.i...?showtopic=4272

Edited by jan, 18 June 2008 - 02:48 AM.

[SAgosto]

jan, on Wednesday, Jun 18 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

How did they do that since they don't see the diamond or have on hand? Very curious...

From the e-mail conversations, she said she contacted the cutter and would actually have it shipped to her for review before it even goes out to me. I am not worried except perhaps losing some shipping money because I have someone on my end that can evaluate the stone for me.

Did I understand the meaning behind your post? If not, please explain.

It was my intention of using the bigger lot from online vendors such as Abazias/Excel and narrowing it down based on the reports and then having them sent to me for individual evaluation by my guy. It allows me not to go down into the NYC Diamond District which is a blood bath in my previous experiences of hagglers. I'd rather trust my friend and this forum to help me instead. However, another NYC Diamond Merchant in my other thread has been helpful so I might take a trip down to see what they offer.

I am open for any suggestions too.

[denverappraiser]

Depending on your sensitivity, most people start to see what they would describe as a hint of color in the face up position somewhere between G-J. Mounted and this can go down to K or even L although I'm not recommending you push this limit. Presumably someone looked at the stone and said that they couldn’t see color under their lights but I’m not sure that’s really very useful information since you don’t know who it was other than that they have a vested interest in you buying the stone. To me this renders this bit of advice nearly useless. If you trust your grader and you’ve narrowed it down to 2 choices, why not have the dealer ship both to him and have him (or you) decide between the two? He will have the opportunity to grade the stones in person, something that none of us and even the dealer can’t do.

Neil

[SAgosto]

denverappraiser, on Wednesday, Jun 18 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

Depending on your sensitivity, most people start to see what they would describe as a hint of color in the face up position somewhere between G-J. Mounted and this can go down to K or even L although I'm not recommending you push this limit. Presumably someone looked at the stone and said that they couldn’t see color under their lights but I’m not sure that’s really very useful information since you don’t know who it was other than that they have a vested interest in you buying the stone. To me this renders this bit of advice nearly useless. If you trust your grader and you’ve narrowed it down to 2 choices, why not have the dealer ship both to him and have him (or you) decide between the two? He will have the opportunity to grade the stones in person, something that none of us and even the dealer can’t do.

Neil

Exactly my plan but I'd like to use the reports to narrow it down as I am doing as I am not that comfortable with shipping $20-$30K worth of stones across the country.

With that said, why would adding the stone to a white setting increase the color? I guess I assumed it would help?

Also, their word is basically just any other advice but you are right, they have a vested interest. Curious to see how accurate they are.

As of now, I thought the smartest would be to search for GIA-Excellent and narrow it down? Am I going about this wrong?

[denverappraiser]

I think your strategy is sound and it’s exactly the one I recommend and you HAVE used the reports to narrow it down quite dramatically. On a previous post weren’t you objecting that this narrowed it down too much? You’re just expecting more information to be gleaned from the report than I think is available.

‘Color’ for example, does not mean the same thing in the diamond world that it does in , say, the printing or even gemstone world. In ‘colorless’ diamonds, it’s purely about saturation with no discussion at all of hue or tone. It’s graded from the back when the usual viewing angle is the front. It does work, but it’s a somewhat screwy system and telling you that it’s an ‘H’ doesn’t really tell the whole story and the proverbial ‘rest of the story’ isn’t contained on the report. Someone simply MUST look at the stone.

GIA-excellent is really a pretty broad category, as well it should be, and there’s a judgment call over what is ‘best’ within it. GIA does not make this call because it’s not a scientific issue and there isn’t enough information contained on the report for anyone else to make it either. Additional narrowing down can be done by various tools like the ASET or brilliancescope, it can be done by psychic powers or it can be done by personal examination by someone you trust to give a useful opinion. The data simply is not present on the report. You’ve got a grader in your corner who you count as reliable, so use him.

Neil

[SAgosto]

denverappraiser, on Wednesday, Jun 18 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

I think your strategy is sound and it’s exactly the one I recommend and you HAVE used the reports to narrow it down quite dramatically. On a previous post weren’t you objecting that this narrowed it down too much? You’re just expecting more information to be gleaned from the report than I think is available.

It left me with 4-8 different stones which I think is a decent starting point. I could always throw more money on the pot but I have a budget that I need to maintain as I also have the setting purchased and planning to spring this while on vacation.

I think the fact that 4-8 different stones that fit my criteria means that I am in the ball park assuming the H/I and VS2/SI1 does not have a yellow tint and is clean to the eye. I should go down Manhattan again and just look at various ones in that region to make sure but, again, it's for her and what I think is good might not be (ie She can see yellow or an inclusion, etc..). But, I think I am close.

denverappraiser, on Wednesday, Jun 18 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

‘Color’ for example, does not mean the same thing in the diamond world that it does in , say, the printing or even gemstone world. In ‘colorless’ diamonds, it’s purely about saturation with no discussion at all of hue or tone. It’s graded from the back when the usual viewing angle is the front. It does work, but it’s a somewhat screwy system and telling you that it’s an ‘H’ doesn’t really tell the whole story and the proverbial ‘rest of the story’ isn’t contained on the report. Someone simply MUST look at the stone.

The back? Weird. Probably to remove the cut from the equation? That makes sense and that's OK as I thought I would have to but I was looking for guidelines and assumed I would be OK with looking at H/I as it being colorless. You are right as the stone will tell the truth. I have another person that should talk sense into me if I cannot see the color that is really there.

denverappraiser, on Wednesday, Jun 18 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

GIA-excellent is really a pretty broad category, as well it should be, and there’s a judgment call over what is ‘best’ within it. GIA does not make this call because it’s not a scientific issue and there isn’t enough information contained on the report for anyone else to make it either. Additional narrowing down can be done by various tools like the ASET or brilliancescope, it can be done by psychic powers or it can be done by personal examination by someone you trust to give a useful opinion. The data simply is not present on the report. You’ve got a grader in your corner who you count as reliable, so use him.

Neil

Awesome. Would you agree that if I stick with the EXCELLENT that I am in the ball park and then could find the best from that? I say that assumine that out of those 5-8 EXCELLENT, that they will not be the same but at least I kicked out the others from the pot? Make sense? It does in my head.

[jan]

Have you actually ever seen any diamonds in person? Looked at color and clarity with your own two eyes to see what colors and clarities appeal to you?

A stone of that size in the SI1 clarity grade is very tricky. Don't know how good your eyes are or how much you can see. My daughter and her fiance can pick out many SI1's with the naked eye. I've seen some that are eye clean as well. And by eye clean you might want to define if you only mean from the top view or side view as well.

Also how color sensitive are your or her eyes?

Edited by jan, 20 June 2008 - 03:20 AM.

[SAgosto]

jan, on Friday, Jun 20 2008, 07:04 AM, said:

Have you actually ever seen any diamonds in person? Looked at color and clarity with your own two eyes to see what colors and clarities appeal to you?

A stone of that size in the SI1 clarity grade is very tricky. Don't know how good your eyes are or how much you can see. My daughter and her fiance can pick out many SI1's with the naked eye. I've seen some that are eye clean as well. And by eye clean you might want to define if you only mean from the top view or side view as well.

Also how color sensitive are your or her eyes?

I am going by 3rd party opinion as I am about to have them sent to me. My eyes are not very good but hers are good. I will have others help me evaluate on my end to avoid that. You are right though and by no means am I trying to say tht this is the defiante way to go but it seems like this is where I will end up assuming I find a SI1 that is eye clean. From looking at a few other stones, GIA H is very white to me (and her) and that's without it set.

Big decision so I'll take my time and make sure I find the one.