11 replies to this topic

[stu9073]

I found a 6.35 carat diamond for 48,600.00 at a local jewlers. It looks nice to the eye with a small inclusion. It is a D color and SI1 with excellent polish and symmetry and a very small cutlet. There is no flourescence but it is clarity enhanced which is ok with me if it brings down the price. Depth % is 60.6 and table % is 60%. The girdle is listed as thin to medium and faceted. Not sure if it should be faceted? It just seems too good to be true!! I'm not a diamond expert, so I thought I could get some feedback from others who know more about diamonds. What do you think? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

[denverappraiser]

Are you seriously considering dropping $48,000 on a blind item without using expert assistance? Who, other than the seller, said it’s an SI1 and what grading scale were they using? (the GIA scale doesn’t apply to clarity enhanced goods). The difference between SI1 and I1 (or even I2) is hugely important and you are betting quite a bit of money on the reliability of this grader. What are you comparing it with when you come to the conclusion that this is a great bargain?

Neil

[diamondsbylauren]

I think a lot of folks would rather get a stone with no plastic filling...even if it's a bit smaller, or not a (supposed) D color.
A natural, non enhanced diamond will be much better at holding it's value

I agree with Neil, the grading is totaly suspect- we know there's no GIA report as GIA does not grade filled diamonds.....

[stu9073]

denverappraiser, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

Are you seriously considering dropping $48,000 on a blind item without using expert assistance? Who, other than the seller, said it’s an SI1 and what grading scale were they using? (the GIA scale doesn’t apply to clarity enhanced goods). The difference between SI1 and I1 (or even I2) is hugely important and you are betting quite a bit of money on the reliability of this grader. What are you comparing it with when you come to the conclusion that this is a great bargain?

Neil

It has a GLD gemological Lab certificate, and the jewler said it was graded by a GIA graduate gemologist, although I suppose they can say whatever they want to say. I did some reading on clarity enhancement, and it seems ok, but I don't know a whole lot about it. I've done most of my research on the internet and have gotten some prices in the hundred thousands (ouch!) for similar size diamonds and characteristics. That's why I didn't understand how this particular diamond was so inexpensive. You know what they say when it sounds too good to be true..........How can I go about verifying the accuracy of the stone without actually bringing it to someone else to look at?

[denverappraiser]

I don't recall ever seeing a clarity enhanced diamond go for 6 figures although I suppose it could theoretically happen. Avoid the tendency to compare them pricewise with untreated natural diamonds that have a similar sounding description. It's like comparing a used Toyota with a new Ferrari and noticing that they're both the same color, both have have the same number of wheels, both will get you to work in the same amount of time and that the Toyota is much cheaper. This is all true as far as it goes but it doesn't make them comparable purchases and it doesn't mean the Toyota is a bargain.

Neil

[stu9073]

denverappraiser, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 11:52 AM, said:

I don't recall ever seeing a clarity enhanced diamond go for 6 figures although I suppose it could theoretically happen. Avoid the tendency to compare them pricewise with untreated natural diamonds that have a similar sounding description. It's like comparing a used Toyota with a new Ferrari and noticing that they're both the same color, both have have the same number of wheels, both will get you to work in the same amount of time and that the Toyota is much cheaper. This is all true as far as it goes but it doesn't make them comparable purchases and it doesn't mean the Toyota is a bargain.

Neil

You are right the expensive ones were not clarity enhanced. I just can't believe that the enhancement process would have such a big effect on the cost. Does that mean it was once a really bad looking diamond? Well considering all that you have shared, I should probably keep looking, and probably for something a little smaller for the same price. Thanks for your opinion.

[denverappraiser]

The purpose of the enhancement is to make a stone more expensive or at least easier to sell than it was before the procedure. That's why they paid to have it done and this means that the seller, or somebody in the ownership chain, raised the price to $48k after they filled in some of the inclusions to make them harder to spot. Nothing has really changed, it's just gussied up a bit. I don't have a real problem with buying CE stones if they are properly represented as such but they are not the same thing and it's horrendously deceptive for a dealer to suggest that they are. $48k is a lot of money. Most people end up buying CE because they have very restricted budget but this is enough to get you quite a rock. What lead you to this particular choice? Was it the size/dollar ratio or something else like an 'appraisal' that said it was worth a fortune and that you could get relatively cheaply?

Neil

[stu9073]

denverappraiser, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

The purpose of the enhancement is to make a stone more expensive or at least easier to sell than it was before the procedure. That's why they paid to have it done and this means that the seller, or somebody in the ownership chain, raised the price to $48k after they filled in some of the inclusions to make them harder to spot. Nothing has really changed, it's just gussied up a bit. I don't have a real problem with buying CE stones if they are properly represented as such but they are not the same thing and it's horrendously deceptive for a dealer to suggest that they are. $48k is a lot of money. Most people end up buying CE because they have very restricted budget but this is enough to get you quite a rock. What lead you to this particular choice? Was it the size/dollar ratio or something else like an 'appraisal' that said it was worth a fortune and that you could get relatively cheaply?

Neil

Mainly it was the size/dollar ratio that got me. I didn't even think of even looking at a diamond this big because the price rises so fast when you get into that size. I guess I just wanted the biggest bang for my buck. It was also appraised at $156,340.00 which seems like a good deal. I didn't realize that you couldn't tell the cut on a GIA scale with CE diamonds (of course why would they tell me that). I really could have got taken advantage of. For the money I have, I just can't seem to get what I want. I'm either sacrificing on size or cost. I don't mind spending it, but all the jewelers want all the cash up front!! I could finance the rest, but I just don't have 80,000.00 cash lying around, you know!!

[denverappraiser]

I understand. Welcome to the diamond world. No matter what the budget, customers by nature want more than they can afford. The upper limit is huge so everyone outside of Hollywood runs into a money barrier. My advice:

#1 Educate yourself. You absolutely must know what some of these terms mean or you are going to get skinned. Really. Read up on the labs and the differences between them and learn the terms used for describing the various attributes about a stone. You need to know what makes one cost $50k and another that looks the same cost $150k. Hint: It’s NOT the appraisal. If you’re not willing to take the time to do this, hire a personal shopper (who you can trust) or shop at the well-known branded stores and be prepared to pay their price.

#2 Shop for a dealer before you shop for a stone. Your budget is high enough that the dealers are going to be falling all over themselves to get at you so the question is going to be who will offer you the level of service you want for a price you can stand. There are NO bargains out there. None. Zip. Nada. They all know what they have and they all are paying roughly the same for it and the issue is going to be one of compromising the various stone attributes against your budget. A dealer that you can trust is extremely helpful in making these compromises. Do not expect to find a dealer who is too stupid to know what they are selling and therefore is pricing it too low and do not believe a dealer who tells you that he’s so close to the source that his prices are massively cheaper. It’s easy to compare prices, it’s hard to compare quality. Diamonds are all about tiny details. Whoever ends up earning your business is going to make money on this deal but margins are tight at this level if you are even remotely aggressive about it. No one is going to be half or even 80% the price of the pack unless there’s something else going on and that something else is never in your best interest.

#3 Consider only stones with paperwork issued by GIA or AGS. No one else, not even me.

#4 Use expert assistance. Expect to hire an appraiser to inspect your stone before the deal is locked up and just include the price of this and maybe some shipping in your budget. The cost is nominal compared to the amount of money at stake and there are quite a few pitfalls that can bite you in the ass. To quote Ronald Regan, “trust but verify”. Use an appraiser who doesn’t sell diamonds and who has no vested interest in the outcome of the exam.

#5 Don't finance diamonds. You've got plenty of budget to get an awesome stone without adding a new debt to get it. If you insist on financing, get it directly from the lender, not filtered through the jeweler. If you're creditworthy, the banks are literally dying for lack of customers.

Neil

[jan]

stu9073, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

You are right the expensive ones were not clarity enhanced. I just can't believe that the enhancement process would have such a big effect on the cost. Does that mean it was once a really bad looking diamond? Well considering all that you have shared, I should probably keep looking, and probably for something a little smaller for the same price. Thanks for your opinion.

That is because to clarity enhance a diamond it has to have a surface breaking inclusion which usually puts it into the I2-I3 grade range for them to be able to fill the stone. Don't get thrown off by the SI1 grade on the lab report. You should also see a statement that says the grade is based on what the stone looks like now, not what the actual grade of the diamond was before it was filled.

It would be like buying a house with a large fissure from top to bottom. Someone fills it with some putty but it isn't structurally sound. That is why the price is largely discounted. If you do purchase it, make sure you get a warranty with it because if the filling comes out you will see what the stone use to look like.

Personally if I had $48,000 to spend on a diamond, it wouldn't be clarity enhanced. Seem like a very bad buying decision.

[stu9073]

denverappraiser, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 02:59 PM, said:

I understand. Welcome to the diamond world. No matter what the budget, customers by nature want more than they can afford. The upper limit is huge so everyone outside of Hollywood runs into a money barrier. My advice:

#1 Educate yourself. You absolutely must know what some of these terms mean or you are going to get skinned. Really. Read up on the labs and the differences between them and learn the terms used for describing the various attributes about a stone. You need to know what makes one cost $50k and another that looks the same cost $150k. Hint: It’s NOT the appraisal. If you’re not willing to take the time to do this, hire a personal shopper (who you can trust) or shop at the well-known branded stores and be prepared to pay their price.

#2 Shop for a dealer before you shop for a stone. Your budget is high enough that the dealers are going to be falling all over themselves to get at you so the question is going to be who will offer you the level of service you want for a price you can stand. There are NO bargains out there. None. Zip. Nada. They all know what they have and they all are paying roughly the same for it and the issue is going to be one of compromising the various stone attributes against your budget. A dealer that you can trust is extremely helpful in making these compromises. Do not expect to find a dealer who is too stupid to know what they are selling and therefore is pricing it too low and do not believe a dealer who tells you that he’s so close to the source that his prices are massively cheaper. It’s easy to compare prices, it’s hard to compare quality. Diamonds are all about tiny details. Whoever ends up earning your business is going to make money on this deal but margins are tight at this level if you are even remotely aggressive about it. No one is going to be half or even 80% the price of the pack unless there’s something else going on and that something else is never in your best interest.

#3 Consider only stones with paperwork issued by GIA or AGS. No one else, not even me.

#4 Use expert assistance. Expect to hire an appraiser to inspect your stone before the deal is locked up and just include the price of this and maybe some shipping in your budget. The cost is nominal compared to the amount of money at stake and there are quite a few pitfalls that can bite you in the ass. To quote Ronald Regan, “trust but verify”. Use an appraiser who doesn’t sell diamonds and who has no vested interest in the outcome of the exam.

#5 Don't finance diamonds. You've got plenty of budget to get an awesome stone without adding a new debt to get it. If you insist on financing, get it directly from the lender, not filtered through the jeweler. If you're creditworthy, the banks are literally dying for lack of customers.

Neil

Thanks so much!! You've been a great help and have given me awesome advice. I will keep looking and do a lot more research about diamonds before I make the big plunge and buy my diamond

Edited by stu9073, 08 March 2008 - 02:02 PM.

[stu9073]

jan, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 03:26 PM, said:

stu9073, on Saturday, Mar 8 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

You are right the expensive ones were not clarity enhanced. I just can't believe that the enhancement process would have such a big effect on the cost. Does that mean it was once a really bad looking diamond? Well considering all that you have shared, I should probably keep looking, and probably for something a little smaller for the same price. Thanks for your opinion.

That is because to clarity enhance a diamond it has to have a surface breaking inclusion which usually puts it into the I2-I3 grade range for them to be able to fill the stone. Don't get thrown off by the SI1 grade on the lab report. You should also see a statement that says the grade is based on what the stone looks like now, not what the actual grade of the diamond was before it was filled.

It would be like buying a house with a large fissure from top to bottom. Someone fills it with some putty but it isn't structurally sound. That is why the price is largely discounted. If you do purchase it, make sure you get a warranty with it because if the filling comes out you will see what the stone use to look like.

Personally if I had $48,000 to spend on a diamond, it wouldn't be clarity enhanced. Seem like a very bad buying decision.

You're right. My husband suggested the same thing after reading these posts. Thany you so much for responding!!