12 replies to this topic

[rocksolid]

I am 100% certain that the ring I bought is not the ring that is on the certificate I received. I have since had appraisals which value it as $10k less.

My lawyer has sent the jeweler letters with no response. What are my chances in court to prove the switch occured?

[denverappraiser]

The strength of your case depends entirely on the evidence you present. Since you've already involved a lawyer, that's who you should be asking how persuasive your argument is.

Neil

[just looking]

rocksolid, on Tuesday, Mar 4 2008, 01:39 PM, said:

I am 100% certain that the ring I bought is not the ring that is on the certificate I received. I have since had appraisals which value it as $10k less.

My lawyer has sent the jeweler letters with no response. What are my chances in court to prove the switch occured?

Who was it first appraised by ;GIA, EGL or ? Does the diamond match the dimensions and weight on the inital appaisal?

[denverappraiser]

We seem to have lost the interest of rocksolid, which is actually sort of a pity since this is a question that concerns a lot of people. Allow me to start by saying that stone switching is nothing like as common as people think it is. It simply doesn’t pay off for jewelers to do this. That’s not to say it doesn’t occur, and there are certainly criminals who aren’t operating in their own best interests but there are only a few cases per year in the whole country. It’s also worth noting that this would qualify as a theft and would therefore be a covered loss under most insurance policies and their standard of proof is WAY less than if you want to press criminal charges against the jeweler/thief.

So what makes a case?

It’s necessary to prove 3 things. First, that you had a diamond or whatever of some particular description originally. This may seem obvious but it’s an important linchpin to building a solid case. If you were cheated by the person who sold it to you, obviously it’s unreasonable to hold some unrelated future jeweler responsible. Secondly, you must demonstrate that what you have now is both different and worse than it used to be. This might because it’s a different diamond, perhaps it’s been damaged, perhaps it’s now something else entirely. If it’s better, there may still be a criminal case but there are no damages so people usually aren’t interested in pursuing it. Again, without this, we’ve got no crime at all so there’s no assigning responsibility for who committed it. Last but definitely not least, you must prove to the satisfaction of the court that the jeweler is responsible for the changes. Presumably the jeweler is denying it or we wouldn’t be needing to have this conversation so it’s necessary to show that nothing else could have reasonably happened between the date of the first point above (independent witness to what you actually had to start with) and the date of whatever evidence you are presenting that shows that it’s now different (discovery of the crime). It might have been changed or damaged by someone else after all. It might even have been changed by YOU. This is a criminal charge and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Neil

[rocksolid]

I'm here!! just reading these responses now as we had put this decision on hold due to other stresses. The appraisal was done by GemScan but it did not have a photograph of the diamond or the ring.

[rocksolid]

Diamond switching is REAL. there are people out there looking to cheat on unsuspecting people. Most of the time this goes undectected because people are trusting or uneducated and don't bother getting another appraisal done. I can't speak for how often it happens.

[denverappraiser]

rocksolid, on Monday, Apr 14 2008, 06:22 PM, said:

I'm here!! just reading these responses now as we had put this decision on hold due to other stresses. The appraisal was done by GemScan but it did not have a photograph of the diamond or the ring.

Gemscan may have additional records that would be useful in demonstrating that the current diamond is different from the one they inspected previously. I and many other appraisers keep such records and I know the major labs do but you would need to ring up Gemscan to ask them what they may be able to do to help.

What did you lawyer have to say?

Neil

[rocksolid]

I will contact Gem Scan.

My lawyer said it becomes a he said, she said and the judge will ultimately decide who's story to believe. It disgusts me that people can be so cruel especially when an engagement is such a big event in a person's life.

[rocksolid]

denverappraiser, on Tuesday, Apr 15 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

rocksolid, on Monday, Apr 14 2008, 06:22 PM, said:

I'm here!! just reading these responses now as we had put this decision on hold due to other stresses. The appraisal was done by GemScan but it did not have a photograph of the diamond or the ring.

Gemscan may have additional records that would be useful in demonstrating that the current diamond is different from the one they inspected previously. I and many other appraisers keep such records and I know the major labs do but you would need to ring up Gemscan to ask them what they may be able to do to help.

What did you lawyer have to say?

Neil

are they truly "independant" appraisers or would they be more likely to help the merchant?

[denverappraiser]

rocksolid, on Thursday, Apr 17 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

are they truly "independent" appraisers or would they be more likely to help the merchant?

They're a reputable firm. They probably have no idea who the merchant even is and, frankly, I wouldn't expect them to much care. They probably did their work on behalf of a supplier firm, not the jeweler. The question is whether a stone that you show them matches one that they've seen before. They may or may not be able to answer this but no, I would not expect them to conspire with someone to defraud you.

They are apparently the only uninvolved party to see it previously so their opinions about what may be different are definitely relevant.

Neil

[rocksolid]

denverappraiser, on Thursday, Apr 17 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

rocksolid, on Thursday, Apr 17 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

are they truly "independent" appraisers or would they be more likely to help the merchant?

They're a reputable firm. They probably have no idea who the merchant even is and, frankly, I wouldn't expect them to much care. They probably did their work on behalf of a supplier firm, not the jeweler. The question is whether a stone that you show them matches one that they've seen before. They may or may not be able to answer this but no, I would not expect them to conspire with someone to defraud you.

They are apparently the only uninvolved party to see it previously so their opinions about what may be different are definitely relevant.

Neil

thanks. I will let you know when this all pans out.

[diamondsbylauren]

rocksolid, on Tuesday, Mar 4 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

I am 100% certain that the ring I bought is not the ring that is on the certificate I received. I have since had appraisals which value it as $10k less.

My lawyer has sent the jeweler letters with no response. What are my chances in court to prove the switch occured?

Wow- this is upsetting, I agree!

A few questions:
1) was this an online purchase?
2) Was the secondary appraisal for $10k less than you paid, or less than it was appraised for?
3) how was the item originally advertised, or presented to you?

I do not believe this type of thing is very common, but there's no question, even if it happens once, that's one too many!

I truly hope the merchant does the right thing here- it would be a shame if you needed to enforce this through the courts.

[rocksolid]

diamondsbylauren, on Monday, Apr 21 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

rocksolid, on Tuesday, Mar 4 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

I am 100% certain that the ring I bought is not the ring that is on the certificate I received. I have since had appraisals which value it as $10k less.

My lawyer has sent the jeweler letters with no response. What are my chances in court to prove the switch occured?

Wow- this is upsetting, I agree!

A few questions:
1) was this an online purchase?
2) Was the secondary appraisal for $10k less than you paid, or less than it was appraised for?
3) how was the item originally advertised, or presented to you?

I do not believe this type of thing is very common, but there's no question, even if it happens once, that's one too many!

I truly hope the merchant does the right thing here- it would be a shame if you needed to enforce this through the courts.

1. not an online purchase. happened in a store. somehow I think there may be more protection with the online purchase! at least the credit card companies seem to think its fraud for online purchases!
2. I'm comparing appraisals; although purchase price is probably in and around the same area of difference.
3. presented at a higher value with a huge sale (cut, colour, etc.)

The merchant is uncooperative. I am hoping justice will prevail in court.