14 replies to this topic

[DiamondBob]

Hi Everybody,

New guy here, but glad to have found this forum. There seems to be a lot of useful information here by knowledgible people. I have been scoping out a princess cut diamond for awhile now, and stumbled across one that caught my eye....... I've been looking for something that's 1.5 CT, D-F and VS1-VS2. Here is all the info I have on this particular stone that I'm eyeing:

Carot Weight: 1.50 Princess Cut
Cut: Very Good
Clarity: VS2
Color: E
Depth %: 69.9%
Table%: 73%
L/W Ratio: 1.02
Symmetry: Good
Polish: Very Good
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Very Thick
Cutlet: None
Flourescence: None
Measurements: 6.48 x 6.37 x 4.45 mm
Certificate: GIA

Price: $9,450

A couple things jump out at me here. First would be the measurements of this stone. They seem a lot larger than other stones in the 1.5 CT category with the same L/W ratio. Would this stone appear larger than another 1.5 CT stone with 6.12 x 6.14 x 4.51 dimensions? Second is the girdle thickness. I've heard that too thick is bad and too thin is bad. Basically, I'm looking for a diamond that is going to be brilliant as well as show maximum size in the 1.5 CT range. I have not seen this diamond in person, and I know that is what really what tells the tale when it comes down to it, but based on the information provided, could this possibly be the diamond that I'm seeking? Any insight on this diamond and on my situation in general would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


DiamondBob

Edited by DiamondBob, 18 November 2007 - 11:37 AM.

[barry]

Based on diamonds that I have seen in the past with this combination of Table and Depth your diamond may or may not be a face up beauty.

At a minimum you would need an Idealscope picture to indicate areas and extent of light retention and leakage.

This diamond was definitely cut for weight retention and to hit the 1.5 carat weight which brings a price premium to a 1.49 carat size. The 73% Table will make the stone look larger but by definition then comes with a lower crown height that usually results in lesser fire.

Ask the Vendor if he can supply you with an Idealscope photo which will clearly indicate areas of light refraction.

Edited by barry, 18 November 2007 - 01:03 PM.

[Yekutiel]

Hi DiamondBob,
Let me be the first to congratulate you on even considering such a nice princess cut diamond. The proportions are fine and the diamond should give off nice fire. The girdle thickness isn't the best out there. But then it's better than to have an extremely thick girdle. To answer your question about the measurements is that this diamond depth is excellent and the table is spreader so in fact you are getting the measurements for a true 1.50ct princess cut diamond. Reality is you really have to judge on how the diamond appears to you in real life after all that is what really counts.

Good Luck,
Yekutiel
www.idjewelryonline.com

[diamondsbylauren]

HI Everyone!

I would agree with Barry on a few points: There is a possibility that the diamond was cut in such a way to maximize it's weight- possibly to the disadvantage of the overall cut.
Dealers are always looking at 1.50, 2.00, 3.00 ...stones that just made a certain carat weight- to make sure they are well cut.
Of course, dealers need to look at every diamond to see if it's well cut.

I don't disqualify well cut princess or radiant cut diamonds based on a thick girdle. There's a lot of great looking straight edged diamonds ( such as princess or radiant) with very or even ex thick girdle.

It's quite possible that a diamond with the specs you posted could be gorgeous- or it might not be all that sparkley and full of life.
Not every 1.50 is a "compromise cut" it's really necessary to see the diamond. Have you seen it?

Even a good photo will give us some idea.....

[DiamondBob]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am requesting an Idealscope photo. I will post it if they are able to provide one. Thanks again.



DiamondBob

[DiamondBob]

OK so they say they don't use Idealscope machines, and cannot provide a photo of the actual diamond. It is Blue Nile, and I'm wondering what you guys think........ Given this diamonds specs on paper, should I go for it since there's a 30 day money back guarantee? What are the chances that this diamond is going to be worth it in eye appeal?


DiamondBob



For those who wish to see their reply on this topic firsthand, here is the email from Blue Nile regarding my request for an Idealscope photo:


Dear Bob,

Thank you for contacting Blue Nile.

I'm sorry to say that we are not able to provide IdealScope reports for our diamonds. This is primarily because our suppliers do not have these machines on site, but also because we do not believe that these reports offer a good value to our customers. A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)

Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers.

I would like to note that our Blue Nile Signature diamonds are graded by a second independent laboratory called GCAL that looks specifically for light performance through various tests. The proportions for our Signature princess-cut diamonds are the result of a lengthy collaboration with the cutting house that produces our Signature princesses. Since there are no industry-wide standards for princess cuts, we asked our supplier-- one of the world's most renowned cutting houses-- to determine what proportions produce the most brilliant stone. We found that a lower depth and table percentage produces a diamond with far more brilliance and fire than a typical princess cut.

I apologize that I can't be of more assistance. Please let me know if you have further questions or if there is anything else I can do to assist you.

Edited by DiamondBob, 18 November 2007 - 06:17 PM.

[DiamondMaven]

DiamondBob, on Sunday, Nov 18 2007, 09:11 PM, said:

OK so they say they don't use Idealscope machines, and cannot provide a photo of the actual diamond. It is Blue Nile, and I'm wondering what you guys think........ Given this diamonds specs on paper, should I go for it since there's a 30 day money back guarantee? What are the chances that this diamond is going to be worth it in eye appeal?


DiamondBob



For those who wish to see their reply on this topic firsthand, here is the email from Blue Nile regarding my request for an Idealscope photo:


Dear Bob,

Thank you for contacting Blue Nile.

I'm sorry to say that we are not able to provide IdealScope reports for our diamonds. This is primarily because our suppliers do not have these machines on site, but also because we do not believe that these reports offer a good value to our customers. A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)

Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers.

I would like to note that our Blue Nile Signature diamonds are graded by a second independent laboratory called GCAL that looks specifically for light performance through various tests. The proportions for our Signature princess-cut diamonds are the result of a lengthy collaboration with the cutting house that produces our Signature princesses. Since there are no industry-wide standards for princess cuts, we asked our supplier-- one of the world's most renowned cutting houses-- to determine what proportions produce the most brilliant stone. We found that a lower depth and table percentage produces a diamond with far more brilliance and fire than a typical princess cut.

I apologize that I can't be of more assistance. Please let me know if you have further questions or if there is anything else I can do to assist you.

This line specifically....

..."but also because we do not believe that these reports offer a good value to our customers."..............

Wow does that offend me!

How convenient and insulting to a consumers intelligence.

So, because Blue Nile cannot get their "Drop-Ship" hands on the Ideal Scope images, they would rather just besmirch these valuable reports and instruments and talk instead about what they do provide. This tactic is so disengenuous and convenient that I am simply amazed that it still works.

Just unbelievable to actually see this in living color from a Blue Nile rep.

Thanks for the reality jolt!

[JohnQuixote]

DiamondBob, on Sunday, Nov 18 2007, 10:11 PM, said:

<< A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)>>

The rep does not know what an ideal-scope is; the above comment refers to BrillianceScope (and does not represent both sides of the Brilliancescope argument).

The ideal-scope is hand-held (link). I use one to sort diamonds & melee with tweezers and backlight. Even producing photography requires no more calibration than ensuring proper backlight, camera focal depth and girdle-plane alignment.

The comments about GIA and AGS are helpful but the GIA grade is extremely wide. It allows some combos that look too small for their weight and appear dark next to better combinations. The AGS grade is more discriminating but someone might want to tell the BN salesperson that the AGS light performance grade is based on ASET research; fundamentally the same as ideal-scope.

Edited by JohnQuixote, 19 November 2007 - 02:28 PM.

[barry]

Interesting that no one asks Blue Nile how GCAL arrives at their light performance measurements?

What instrumentation do they use and how does their instrumentation work? Is it valid and repeatable?

[barry]

BTW;

The Blue Nile response looks to be boiler-plate/template. Just the name of the customer changes.

[denverappraiser]

DiamondBob, on Sunday, Nov 18 2007, 10:11 PM, said:

<snip>A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, <snip>

True enough. And a sales rep is only as good as the boilerplates they work from.

An Idealscope is not a Brilliancescope and nether one of them produces an appraisal.

DiamondBob, on Sunday, Nov 18 2007, 10:11 PM, said:

We found that a lower depth and table percentage produces a diamond with far more brilliance and fire than a typical princess cut.

Apparently their scriptwriter believes that brilliance is a function of depth and table percentage, a fairly widely held misconception that's directly contrary to the very research by GIA and AGS that they speak so highly of in the preceding paragraph.

Good Grief. It's no wonder customers are confused. They can do better.

Bob, to answer your question, yes there’s a pretty good chance that the diamond will be lovely. Yes, they will almost certainly honor the 30 day return so your risk is fairly low if you or your appraiser decide that something is out of whack.

Neil

[DiamondBob]

Thanks everyone for your input.

I have decided after learning of the "drop ship" method used by Blue Nile that I will not be purchasing a diamond from them. The fact that they are selling something that they can't even personally inspect raises a red flag for me. Especially for a purchase involving this much money. Their generic response to my question about the Idealscope images put a bad taste in my mouth as well. I'm glad I shared that email with you. I had a feeling you guys would appreciate that.

I have decided to make my purchase with a vendor who can work with me 1 on 1 to find the best diamond within my specifications, while actually personally accessing the diamonds in the process. A purchse this big and important I feel deserves respect, and I just don't feel that Blue Nile offers customers that repect. I will let you all know how it goes. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to me here, and Happy Thanksgiving.


DiamondBob

[JohnQuixote]

Bob,

Thanks for returning and sharing your feelings. While it's true that different people will accept different things I suspect if more consumers were aware of what "drop-shipper" implies there would be significantly less people trusting major purchase decisions companies that do this. For what it's worth I think you've made a safe choice.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Edited by JohnQuixote, 21 November 2007 - 11:20 AM.

[diamondsbylauren]

DiamondBob- your posts have been remarkable, and illuminating.
I, for one, am very grateful to you for sharing your experience!

[Bradley]

Hi Bob You don`t have a lot of information to go on. Some other measurements such as crown height and pavilion depth could be helpful in indicating if something was shallow. If you want to know how bright the diamond is you will need some performance based testing or visual examination of the diamond. The GIA paper is not going to give the complete story.

Edited by Bradley, 21 November 2007 - 05:50 PM.