9 replies to this topic

[chanze1]

I have an interesting scenario and have recieved multiple answers. Let me briefly describe the stone

The color is in the I range, The clarity was described as SI 2. The ring seemed to have a fair to good cut but in bright white light the stone would loose its brillance. Also, when viewing the stone with a 10 x loupe the stone appeared to have a light gray color evenly distributed thruout the stone. It is not fluoresence'
An experienced appraiser , gemologist told me their was pin point crystals causing the milky , cloudy effect

Can a stone have this pin point crystal cloud and yet still be decribed as a decent clarity??
Seem like a contradiction to me

How would this cloud and where would it be placed in a cert on the diamond?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am little confused on this cloud effect and how it is described in a professional appraisal, also, where would it show up, as a comment or diminishing the clarity of the stone

Edited by chanze1, 16 June 2007 - 10:37 PM.

[denverappraiser]

By definition, inclusions that materially affect the beauty or durability of the stone are, at best, I-1 in clarity. I-1’s get sold as SI-2 all the time, sometimes even SI-1.

Clouds are plotted with a dotted red line or a comment that says ‘cloud not shown’. They often are omitted entirely. What lab graded this stone?

I presume that your chosen gemologist actually inspected the stone. What did he/she have to say about it? Did he/she agree with the clarity grade told to you by the seller?

Neil

[chanze1]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

By definition, inclusions that materially affect the beauty or durability of the stone are, at best, I-1 in clarity. I-1’s get sold as SI-2 all the time, sometimes even SI-1.

Clouds are plotted with a dotted red line or a comment that says ‘cloud not shown’. They often are omitted entirely. What lab graded this stone?

I presume that your chosen gemologist actually inspected the stone. What did he/she have to say about it? Did he/she agree with the clarity grade told to you by the seller?

Neil

when i purchased the stone i dint have a cert or appraisal from a lab, just a description and picture,. The description consisted of the clarity and color
I SI2

The part that thru me off is that I didnt realize that a stone can have a cloud that is the entire stone, so when you look at the diamond with a loupe, the stone lookes perfectly clean , but a grayish color evenly thruout the entire stone, almost like it was supposed to be that color it was so evenly dispersed
Like a slight haze but everywhere .
So its like one big inclusion but perfectly dispersed thru the stone

A cert might not even mention the cloud? What about one of the better labs, ie GIA AGS

[chanze1]

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

By definition, inclusions that materially affect the beauty or durability of the stone are, at best, I-1 in clarity. I-1’s get sold as SI-2 all the time, sometimes even SI-1.

Clouds are plotted with a dotted red line or a comment that says ‘cloud not shown’. They often are omitted entirely. What lab graded this stone?

I presume that your chosen gemologist actually inspected the stone. What did he/she have to say about it? Did he/she agree with the clarity grade told to you by the seller?

Neil

when i purchased the stone i dint have a cert or appraisal from a lab, just a description and picture,. The description consisted of the clarity and color
I SI2

The part that thru me off is that I didnt realize that a stone can have a cloud that is the entire stone, so when you look at the diamond with a loupe, the stone lookes perfectly clean , but a grayish color evenly thruout the entire stone, almost like it was supposed to be that color it was so evenly dispersed
Like a slight haze but everywhere .
So its like one big inclusion but perfectly dispersed thru the stone

A cert might not even mention the cloud? What about one of the better labs, ie GIA AGS

As for the gemologist, he told me there are pin point crystal thruout the stone causing a cloud. Again, the crystals were perfectly dispersed . He didnt get into the clarity, just the stone was unacceptable

[denverappraiser]

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:38 AM, said:

<snip> just the stone was unacceptable <snip>

But you're not taking his advice?

Neil

[denverappraiser]

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

A cert might not even mention the cloud? What about one of the better labs, ie GIA AGS

I would expect either GIA or AGS to mention this. Other labs might or might not. Each lab sets their own grading standards and they are not all the same.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 17 June 2007 - 06:03 AM.

[chanze1]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 09:00 AM, said:

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 08:38 AM, said:

<snip> just the stone was unacceptable <snip>

But you're not taking his advice?

Neil

Yes, I did take his advice and returned the ring. My questions are more about trying to understand this cloud effect and how it is graded.

Is it common for a stone to have a cloud of pin point crystals dispersed so evenly?

[denverappraiser]

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

Is it common for a stone to have a cloud of pin point crystals dispersed so evenly?

Yes, this is fairly common.

Neil

[chanze1]

denverappraiser, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 11:03 AM, said:

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

Is it common for a stone to have a cloud of pin point crystals dispersed so evenly?

Yes, this is fairly common.

Neil

With your obvious experience appraising diamonds, can you have a cloud such as described and not have an effect on the brillance or is that impossible?

[denverappraiser]

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 01:13 AM, said:

The ring seemed to have a fair to good cut but in bright white light the stone would loose its brillance.

chanze1, on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

With your obvious experience appraising diamonds, can you have a cloud such as described and not have an effect on the brillance or is that impossible?

There are clouds that do not significantly affect the brilliance of the stone but your description includes that this one does. Large clouds are a bad thing for maximizing brilliance and if you can see 'pinpoints' under 10x I would take that as a bad sign but, as mentioned above, we're talking about an I-1 at best so it's only fair to be comparing it to other I-1's and the question is deciding what are you willing trade off in exchange for the lower price. Your approach of looking at the stone under a variety of lighting conditions is exactly the right thing to do. Finding a seller who is willing to describe it as SI2 will have no affect at all.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 17 June 2007 - 10:15 AM.