18 replies to this topic

[Mithun]

Background information:
I am buying it purely for astroligical reasons than any feelings I have for my wife so it has been relatively easy to chose the diamond based on what I can afford .. There were a few small things which I am not very sure of and was hoping someone could throw light on it. I will also get the ring appraised therefore I am hopeful I wont be taken for a ride by either party.

Candidates:
Online - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.01 ct; GIA Certified, Depth 62.1, Table 54, Polish-Excellent, Symmetry-Very Good
Price $5056.00
B&M - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.00 ct; GIA Certified, Depth between 58.3-63, Table 52-60, Polish & Symetry-VGood Price $5200.00

Observations:
I understand I have the following benefits by going to the local jeweler
1. I get the diamond in hand immediately - I have to wait two days for online
2. Sizing issues if any would be handled faster
3. Rhodium polishing would be done for free - as long as I am in the same city - which is definitely not forever
4. If I look at two diamonds in the American Ideal Cut 1b range I can not differentiate between two diamonds
5. I would pay $300 for the diamond and potentially another $500 in tax - there are ways around the tax thing but I dont like the idea
6. I would assume both parties are equally trustworthy or not

I have one simple question - is it worth paying $700 or even $300 extra if I forget the tax part. Am I missing anything before I make a decission ?



Mithun

[H and A]

You're looking at everything but the cut quality, even though cut quality is the most important because it's what gives a diamond it's brilliance. So it's probably best if you rearrange your priorities. But if buying for purely astrological reasons then maybe beauty isn't the first priority anyway?

[Feydakin]

Don't forget that buying online does not release you from paying that sales tax.. Every state that collects sales tax has a provision in their tax law that requires you to declare and pay sale tax on things bought through catalog and online sales..

[Mithun]

Well I thought both were within the "American Ideal Cut" specification mentioned in the tutorial section. Also both were mentioned as very good in the GIA certificate.
Is there anything which a layman can decipher within such parameters ?

By visual comparison a diamond with depth 63.7% did look darker - I assume that meant the constraint was the right thing to do ?

I would definitely like to pay for a better cut as long as it is within reasonable price ..

[Mithun]

How does the tax aspect work - according to the online store they wont charge me sales tax for shipping to my state. Do I have to pay a tax on the purchase later ?

[Mithun]

As for the cut - how does one go about deciding which one is cut better ? If I understand it correctly the only way I will ever get to evaluate a better cut is if I kept both of them in front of my eyes and checked it out in various lighting conditions - which is impossible to do either in store or online.

The local store showed me four stones with the specification I had given
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Table: 52-60
Depth: 58.3-63
Size: 1ct

Frankly speaking I couldn't differentiate anything between those four - I even managed to think that an "I" colored stone was a "H" though I could see the "E" color was a lot better than the "H"

After looking at almost 10 stones even my wife can't decide which one looks better if at all. So either both of us are totally clueless as to what a good diamond is supposed to look like or we have to accept the fact that the specifications are so stringent that it is not possible to notice slight differences without a lot of experience.

[denverappraiser]

Mithun, on Saturday, Mar 24 2007, 12:48 AM, said:

How does the tax aspect work - according to the online store they wont charge me sales tax for shipping to my state. Do I have to pay a tax on the purchase later ?

It depends on your state but, in most cases, yes. Check the website of your home state's revenue department. Most have a prominent FAQ section about sales taxes that specifically addresses this issue along with links to the required forms and instructions on when and how to file them. If you live in a community with a sales tax, you still owe it no matter where you make your purchase. The fact that the merchant is not required to collect the tax on your behalf does not mean that you don’t owe it, only that you are expected to file it yourself.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 24 March 2007 - 06:06 AM.

[Feydakin]

I know that in Indiana they have added a few lines on the tax form that say - list amount of untaxed purchases.. Then multiple by 6%..

Many states are putting this right in their annual tax forms..

[Mithun]

What about the cut - is there anything a layman can look for beyond making sure it remains within the American Ideal Cut specs ?

[Mithun]

Online - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.01 ct; GIA Certified, Depth 62.1, Table 54, Polish - Excellent, Symmetry - Very Good, Price $5056.00
B&M - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.00 ct; GIA Certified, Depth 61.4, Table 60, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Price $5200.00

Can we do a objective comparison now or more information is still required ?

[denverappraiser]

Mithun, on Monday, Mar 26 2007, 05:30 PM, said:

Online - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.01 ct; GIA Certified, Depth 62.1, Table 54, Polish - Excellent, Symmetry - Very Good, Price $5056.00
B&M - H in color and VS2 in clarity; 1.00 ct; GIA Certified, Depth 61.4, Table 60, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Price $5200.00

Can we do a objective comparison now or more information is still required ?

No, but they both look reasonably promising. GIA reports on round diamonds issued after 1.2.06 have a ‘cut grade’ on them. Does either of these stones have such a grade?

Mind you, I still won’t answer your question about which is ‘better’ even if you provide this because there is far too much of a component of personal taste in that but the GIA grading does compare it to parameters of a large number of other stones and groups it in with others based on what was popular in a large study they did. This isn’t quite the same thing, but it can be useful nonetheless.

An objective comparison will require the same observer (preferably you) examining both stones in the same lighting environments.

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser, 27 March 2007 - 05:32 AM.

[Mithun]

The online version says Cut Grade Excellent - I have to ask the local jeweler for the other one.

I do understand the choice is very subjective - I cant do anything about that. What I can definitely do is eliminate all the objective parameters from the picture

I obviously can't compare a diamond online with one available with a local jeweler - atleast not visually.

[denverappraiser]

Many online dealers are happy to send you the stone with a return period within which you can take it to the store and compare it side by side at the store with their stone. Call the store to make sure they are ok with this but most will have no problem because it gives them the final sales pitch. If you decide the one in the store suits you better, buy it and return the online one. If you like the online one better, keep it. The worst case scenerio is that you pay a few shipping charges and waste a trip to the post office if you like the local one better. That's not so bad.

Neil

[Mithun]

Thanks to everyone who helped me make my decission. She is very happy with the choice !!


I do have one final thing to sort out and that is the insurance. I have bought the ring for approximately $5100 - I had it appraised by an independant appraiser and she mentioned the following prices:
1. Approximately $6000 if I bought online
2. Approximately $9500 is what I should insure it for
3. Approxiamately $11000 is the retail price

I do understand I need to insure the diamond taking into factor the appreciation in value over a period of time. What I dont know are the following:
1. How much would a diamond usually apprecaite in value in maybe 5 years
2. What exactly happens if by some missfortune I do loose the diamond and I file a claim for it - how does the insured value work out with the current market price

[denverappraiser]

Recently diamonds have appreciated 10-15%/year. A lot of this has to do with the weakness of the US dollar and it’s always a crapshoot to try and predict the future but people who bought things right 5 years ago have done pretty well. If I could accurately predict future prices, I would be a wealthy wealthy man.

Most insurance carriers are agreeing to replace with ‘like kind and quality’ or fund you to do the same. This means that they will buy a comparable diamond in the case of a loss. They will, of course, want to pay as little as they can and they are pretty savvy shoppers. That said, the ‘most’ word in there is a biggie. Policies vary from company to company, from state to state and policy to policy. Ask your insurance agent for details on how yours will handle claims.

Neil

[Mithun]

I talked to Farmers Insurance and this what they are saying:

1. I need to have the ring appraised by a certified appraiser and they will insure the ring for the amount it has been appraised - it doesn't matter whether I bought it for a price higher or lower than that.
2. I need to reappraise the ring every two years to ensure it is being insured for the correct amount
3. They will get me a similar diamond ring or pay the insured amount in case of loss.

Does this mean I am getting a good deal or are there any fine points which have not been elaborated ?

[denverappraiser]

Your insurance company has nothing to do with whether you are getting a ‘good deal’. In general, if you have a loss they will replace the lost item with another of like kind and quality that will be supplied by one of their preferred providers. They’re pretty savvy shoppers but, in practice, they normally pay more than the discount internet folks because they have to have a retail showroom or their customers wouldn’t stand for it. The values normally presented for ‘insurance purposes’ are generally estimated forced replacement costs in the local retail market where you live. The Internet dealers can generally beat this fairly easily and it’s not really a fair comparison.

‘Certified’ appraiser is something of a problem term. There are no licensing requirements for jewelry appraisers in the US so you need to be careful about who is certifying whom. There are some credible groups that lend this status including the AGS, NAJA and ISA but there are some pretty shady usages of this term as well. You can bet your Farmers agent didn’t understand it when they used it and the company has no such requirement. It benefits you to have well documented appraisals far more than it benefits the insurance company. They will accept almost anything. It’s YOU who should be more demanding.

Neil
(certified appraiser)

Edited by denverappraiser, 10 April 2007 - 02:20 PM.

[barry]

Good advice given to you by Neil, Feydakin, and H&A on Cut Quality and the Tax issue.

Asrology is taken very seriously by many people and advice dispensed via the Zodiac is followed religiously.

I wonder if you have (could) run your specific questions through your Astrologer and see what they (He, She?) advises you.

Please let us know.

[Mithun]

I am really thankful to Neil, Feydakin and H&A for their valuable inputs - especially Neil !! Without their inputs I would have been a lot less knowledgeable customer !!

Astrology just relates the effects of gemstones to planetary positions. They dont have specific requirements from the stones other than the fact that it should have minimal flaws and be of certain weight. I dont think I will ever be able to afford a D/FL so I compromised to H/VS2 which is more within what I can afford to do with the planets I did go for a ideal cut since the effect of light on the stone is important.

The astrologer did promise my tax woes would go away "after" sher wears the stone - will let you know how that goes !!

Again thanks a lot to everyone who pitched in with their knowledge I really benefited a lot from this discussion which couldn't have happened in any other place.