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strong blue fluorescence - positive or negative


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#1 nyc-gail

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 07:31 PM

Hello,

I am looking to purchase a diamond with the following specifications:

round
3.24 carat ideal cut
I color - SI1 clarity
fluorescence - strong blue

My only concern is the strong blue fluorescence.

I heard that diamond colors (I-K) with any amount of fluorescence has a positive effect on the diamond, making it appear more white. However, after doing some research on the internet I've found multiple sites stating that strong blue fluorescence on a diamond is bad and that many jewelers will try to make it appear like it is a value by flaunting how white it appears and how much more of a value it is. Before my soon-to-be fiance makes a huge financial commitment on this diamond I'd like to have peace of mind knowing whether or not strong blue fluorescence on an I colored round ideal cut diamond is a positive or negative attribute.

Thank you!!!!!

#2 barry

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 08:00 PM

Have you seen this diamond? or are you buying it blind off an Internet diamond website?

There is much ignorance and mis-information regarding the effects of fluorescence on diamond transparency.

Strong fluorescence has a negative impact on a diamonds transparency in less than 1% of all polished diamonds which appears as a hazy, oily, or opaque look. Otherwise it's a non-factor.

Years ago before diamonds were sold primarily off paper lab grading reports, fluorescent diamonds were known as "blue-white" diamonds and sold at significant premiums.

GIA scientists did the definitive study on this topic back in 1997 and found that there were no negative effects of strong fluorescence on diamond transparency and that furthermore, both consumers and tradespeople had great difficulty in detecting it!

It's worth your while to read this GIA study in it's entirety. The link is here:

http://www.gia.edu/p...7_fluoresce.pdf

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#3 denverappraiser

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 04:53 AM

Strong fluorescence tends to bring the price down a little bit and, as Barry points out, usually has no affect on the beauty of the stone. Most buyers would call this good but, because of that 1% where itís a problem, and because this is Ďoverblueí phenomena isnít listed on the GIA reports, it makes it difficult to buy a stone sight unseen. You shouldnít commit to a deal until you seen the stone anyway so this really isnít a major issue unless you just donít care for the whole idea of it. Itís pretty easy to avoid if you donít want it.

Who graded it and who called it 'ideal'?

Neil
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#4 nyc-gail

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:42 AM

Thanks for both of your responses on my inquiry.

I saw the diamond in the diamond district in NYC at a reputable store, it is not an internet diamond. It is GIA certified. The diamond did appear more white than other diamonds. Is it going to appear more brilliant and white in direct sunlight too? Is it only under UV / black lights that it will glow blue? I'm going to look at the diamond again today. Any suggestions on what I should look for or ask the salesman?

In addition, I'm looking at a setting that has .89 carat tapered baguettes. The center stone was a lot more white next to the baguettes that are a VS1 G color. Is this bad?

Thanks again.

#5 WebGal

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:43 AM

Who graded it and who called it 'ideal'?

You definitely need to look into this. Lot's of places like to use that buzz word.

I love fluorescence but I don't know that I'd buy one sight unseen. It is not always a desirable feature in colored diamonds, however. But there are exceptions to that rule. I like it because I like it. ANd I like it because it brings down the price and makes it easier on the pocketbook to get a larger diamond.

Here is a GIA 1.70ct VVS1 Pear Brilliant, Q-R color. I think the fluor makes this one look whiter than Q-R. So in this case, it does make it look whiter. But it's not for someone looking for blinding white, that's for sure.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Quote from our owner: "To REALLY see the stone fluorescence, you have to put it in subdued lighting conditions and then hit it with ultra-violet light. You know, black light. Those purple looking lights in discos."

Posted Image

Again, I'd buy from a place where you can get a real photo of the diamond you want to buy.
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#6 WebGal

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:45 AM

Barry is in the District, by the way and you might want to go by there. We are too, but we are an internet dealer.
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#7 nyc-gail

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:01 AM

Hi Neil,

When you say I need to get a real photo of the diamond I want to buy, is this a something that most customers ask even when they see the diamond in person? Also, is this something that the store in the district can easily provide. He gave me the GIA report and it is listed on Blue Nile.

What is Barry's store address and name? Also what is your site name? I am looking for a diamond that is around 3.2 - 3.5 carats VS2 or SI1 color not higher lower than an I, with no fluorescence....

Also, is faint fluorescence by GIA for an SI1 color I okay?

Thanks!

#8 denverappraiser

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:20 AM

That was webgal who suggested a photo.

I much prefer if you can actually arrange to see the stone in person but with a lot of Internet type sales this is difficult to arrange. It sounds like you've got this one covered. If possible, have them show it to you in the a variety of lighting conditions, including sunlight. No, most storefront dealers aren't able to provide photographs and very few people ask for them. For Internet dealers, this is a common and entirely sensible request.

Barry's contact information is on each of his websites and there is a link to the sites at the foot of each of his posts. www.superbcert.com is one of them. Mine is www.gemlab.us

I have no problem with fluorescence. I'm with Webgal, I sort of like it.
GIA faint will not be visible except in the most extreme of conditions (like at the disco) and then only barely, it won't affect the beauty of the stone in any other lighting environment and it won't affect the price.

Neil
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#9 WebGal

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:48 AM

When you say I need to get a real photo of the diamond I want to buy, is this a something that most customers ask even when they see the diamond in person?  Also, is this something that the store in the district can easily provide.  He gave me the GIA report and it is listed on Blue Nile.

If it's listed on an internet site that says "50,000 diamonds", it's a database diamond which means it's not located at that business and listed on several internet sites. The database diamonds are held in a safe in Mars and transported by a starship. Kidding on that last part about Mars and the spaceship.

They can only ask to ship it but they've not seen it and don't have it to show you. It might be in the district somewhere and they'd have to go get it. Be very careful in the diamond district as there are many sharks.

Barry, like us, owns many diamonds so you can look at them. The advantage here is that the dealer thought it beautiful enough to BUY IT for inventory. I color is fine as the round shape tends to make it look whiter. I would go to a J or even a K as I like a lower color. I think they are very lively. But that's my personal preference. A well cut J looks plenty white to me.

[url="http://diamondsbylauren.com/DBL_White_diamond_grading.shtml"]White Diamond Grading with Photos[/url]

I can post a photo of my J color ring if you want. It's not round but you can get an idea of just how subtle the shade difference are.

Nice site Neil. Good navigation and just the right amount of copy.
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#10 LdyNghtWng

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 12:11 PM

I have a G OEC with strong blue fluorescence and LOVE it. It looks quite white and bright in mixed indoor lighting, maybe even whiter than my E colour e-ring. Outdoors in strong sunlight it is distinctly violet/bluish, and positively radiates. Maybe not to everyones taste, but in more subdued light it has a shimmmery, luminous quality. I'm not entirely sure if I would want this in and e-ring though. My E has no fluorescence, and in a way I'm glad, so I know it hasn't been overgraded.

#11 WebGal

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 01:28 PM

It's nice to know what the consumer thinks. Thanks for sharing that.
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#12 diamondsbylauren

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 02:55 PM

Hi Gail,
Can you post a copy of the GIA report?
There's a lot of misinformation on 47th street.

When I'm buying I-J-K-L colors ( which happens a lot) a prefer a diamond with medium, or non detrimental Strong Blue Fluorescence

#13 nyc-gail

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:02 PM

Hi David,

The GIA report for the diamond I am inquiring about is on www.bluenile.com - - it is the round 3.24 carat listed under $32,000. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Gail

#14 nyc-gail

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:03 PM

By the way, are there any dealers on West 47th street that I should be weary of?

#15 WebGal

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:24 PM

By the way,  are there any dealers on West 47th street that I should be weary of?

Yes, 99% of them.

We are on 47th, way above street level and we don't have a store. We're internet dealers. Our owner wanted a new watch and would not even buy one on the street on which he has worked for almost a decade. I've never purchased anything other than coffee and bottled water on 47th. Okay, I've bought lunch. Barry is there, Supercert, and he's nice and trustworthy.

Blue Nile does not have a bad reputation and they are not dishonest. I would simply not buy a fancy shape without a photo. There are many different shapes in pears that no report alone can show you.

Sorta plump to long and thin to perfect teardrop, squatty, perfect organic pear? It's all preference. Some are colored but you get what I mean about shape?

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
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#16 barry

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:11 AM

Bluenile lists a large inventory of Virtual Diamonds that are supplied to them by various diamond manufacturers. Many other Internet Websites have access to these same lists.

The mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find an Internet Dealer that can actually call in this diamond for you and do a work-up for you that includes photos so that you know what you're buying before you actually buy it.

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