23 replies to this topic

[ddlingo]

OK, here is the scenario.....I had ben dealing with the online diamond seller for over a month. He described a diamond and sent pictures it sounded like a great deal. But when I got the diamond all of the specs ( 4cs) were all in order except for the color. The clarity was great, The size was nice and so was the cut. But the Color was horrible. THe diamond was straight Yellow! I had already paid for the diamond with my AMEX. But he didn't avoid me he understood my disappointment and stated that he would find another ring nonclarity enhanced. This was key, I secifically stated that I did not want a clarity enhanced ring. So I returned the ring and he kept my money with theagreement that he would find a omparable priced ring to my satisfaction. He took forever, but he did not avaoi me. Then my proposal date was fast appoaching and it had been almost 6 weeks. No ring..He still ahd my money. He then began to lie and say that he had the new ring and that it was not clarity enhanced(even though he continously tried to concince me to buy one) . Now he wa saying te ring was on the way and it never was. Now he avoided me for almost 3 weeks and now the week of my porposal was here. I called him and left a threatning message and then called AMEX and fileda dispute. They credited me back with the money and I called it a day. Then I was going to purchase a ring locally and all of a sudedn the ring arrived and I got a call form the jewler. I told him i was angry it took so long but glad I got it. He then stated that I conned him by cancelling the payment with AMEX. It was just dumb luck that the day I filed the dispute that I got the ring the next day. Anyway, he told me that the ring was not lclarith enhanced again and said that he sent the appraisal with the diamond and that I need to immediatley send him payment. But my proposal was the next day. So I proposed 1st then took the ring for resizing and appraisal and low and behold.....the ring was clarity enhanced and my credit card compnay gave me my money back. The appraisal was from UGL. but it idn't not list it as clarity enhanced at all. Now I have given my fiance' this damn ring and now I find that it is clarity enhanced. She nor I wanted this type of ring. What whould I do, now he is threatinig to take legal action if I do not return the ring or the money, but I feel that he tried to defraud me! And I am pissed!

[ben]

Wow, interesting turn of events.

First and foremost, you need to make the jeweler whole somehow. You need to either return the ring or pay him (even if a renegotiated price to account for the fact that it is clarity enhanced). Although the jeweler was probably not completely straightforward/honest with you, you still have a ring you did not pay for. You need to take the high road and make that jeweler whole.

As for what to do next, I would strongly consider telling the story to your fiancee, and asking her what she'd like to do. Perhaps she would like to go ring shopping with you, pick out something you both like. It certainly sounds like she is less than thrilled. Or perhaps she loves the setting, but you both want to replace the clarity-enhanced diamond with something else. It's up to you, but I would discuss it with her -- hey, one of your first serious discussions with your wife to be!

I'll be curious to find out how you resolve this pickle.

[ddlingo]

I can't lie to you. Thats not quite what I wanted to hear. I am so damn angry that he tried to trick me that way. Not only that, the position he put me in after he had my money forced me to wait until the very last moment where I had no oportunity to get an appraisal until after the proposal. DAMN! I'm stuck like Chuck!

[ben]

Think of it this way -- every time you see your beloved fiancee/wife wearing that ring, do you want to remember this bitter experience? Do you want her to wear a ring you did not pay for (and some would argue that you stole)?

This website is filled with reputable and honest jewelers. Return that clarity-enhanced piece of junk you didn't pay for, and find someone here that will help you start anew with a ring that you will both cherish forever.

[ddlingo]

I'm sure in the end I will take your advice. But he mayhave to wait until I fel he has waited long enough though. Also did he in any way break any law or jeapordie the appraisers license in any way? UGL is the certification(whatever the heck that is)

[Feydakin]

As much as it would be nice to wait, at the moment you are treading on mail fraud and federal charges should he choose to go after you.. And even taking the events in to consideration, the fact remains that you have merchandise that you didn't pay for..

I agree that it sucks.. And it would be great to get back at him somehow.. Posting the company here might be a good way to start as a warning to others.. But keeping the ring just leaves you open to too many issues that you may not want to deal with..

ETA: Also, the longer you hold on to it, the more chances that it will become damaged in your posession and then you will be stuck with a ring you don't want..

[ddlingo]

I know pretty much everyone here is going to be pro-jeweler in this situation, but did he violate any laws at all?

[denverappraiser]

When you filed the reversal with AmEx, I presume you stated that the reason for the chargeback was that the merchandise hadn’t arrived as of the date of the filing. True enough. You have also agreed in your cardmember agreement to keep them informed of relevant facts. The arrival of a ring that is the subject of an active chargeback is clearly a relevant fact. The fact that you have subsequently determined the quality to be Clarity Enhanced and have kept it anyway is evidence that you have agreed that the enhancement is NOT a deal killer for you. The longer you wait, the easier it is for the jeweler to say that they did their part, they made a ring that was acceptable to you and that AmEx should give them the money. You can bet that they’ve already asked for this and have already presented AmEx with evidence of the delivery. In your effort to punish the jeweler for behaving badly, you are subverting you own position with AmEx. It’s not over, and when AmEx undoes your chargeback it will be too late. I’m with the above, give the ring back NOW.

There are a variety of laws that may have been broken by the jeweler but the details will depend on the paper trail, what state you are in and what state the jeweler is in. It's remarkably complicated.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

[Feydakin]

I'm certainly not "pro" jeweler in this case.. What happened was inexcusable..

I am pro keeping you from facing felony charges for mail fraud..

As Neil sad, every jurisdiction is unique and has it's own laws.. Yes, you can probably make his life interesting to say the least.. But, is it really worth the effort and expense, to your spirit and wallet, to build up this much bad feeling on an occassion that you really should be celebrating??

If this were me I would do these things -

1. Return the ring ASAP
2. File a complaint with the BBB both locally to him and online
3. Post his name and what happened everywhere I can think of - just to protect the next guy
4. Buy a new ring with your fiance that you will both cherish
5. Move on - Life is the longest thing you will ever do - but there's never enough of it - why waste it on people like this??

[ben]

There's no question that the jeweler broke some laws. However, I'm with everyone here -- don't go following in his footsteps by you breaking laws as well. It's not an eye for an eye here. This is also not a question of being "pro jeweler" or not. It's simply a matter of doing what's right and lawful.

[purpleeagle]

I like Ben's advice. As always, he's right on. Return the ring, and go buy the ring that will come with wonderful memories.

[ddlingo]

with all that being said......not one person has stated what laws e has broken and/or how I can pursue that angle.

[denverappraiser]

ddlingo, on Thursday, Jun 8 2006, 09:02 PM, said:

with all that being said......not one person has stated what laws e has broken and/or how I can pursue that angle.

That’s because we don’t have enough information. If you really want to follow the legal tactic, talk to your attorney. Bring your checkbook.

There may be a claim of false advertising under the FTC rules but this will depend on what was put in writing, where and how and to whom the various claims of non-enhancement were made. Talk to the DA in the jurisdiction of the jeweler about filing a complaint.
There may be a UCC violation if it was shipped interstate. This will also depend on what was put in writing and what exactly was shipped.
If you are in the same state as UGL, you may have an action against them for negligence.
If your appraiser is wrong about the enhancement, either you or the jeweler may have a case against them for negligence.

If you’re thinking about pursuing this as a civil matter, there must be damages. You have none that I can see. On the other hand, I see a growing case against you.

Neil

[ddlingo]

Quote

That’s because we don’t have enough information. If you really want to follow the legal tactic, talk to your attorney. Bring your checkbook.

I should have expected that response. Ihave broken no laws. He may have a civil case but thats it. I know that much.I was more than patient and he tried to defraud me but that is not the issue with most of the postes here on this board because it seems that most of you share his same position.

How about the fact that he stated the ring is not clarity enhanced in writing (email) and the appraisal does not state that the ring is enhanced. I have not denied that I have the ring nor am I running form him. So screw the charges. We have a dispute so there is no theft there. I filed for the return of my money 1 day before he even put the ring in the mail. I am in Ga, and he is in NY along with the UGL certification.
BTW: My heart is not attached to any ring. Its not a matter of staring into a ring and cherishing it together holding hands walking on Golden Pond rowing a boat eating quartered sandwiches and sipping wine. I just wanted a nice ring. 2nd of all I think that a clarity enhanced ring would be far less valuable than a non enhanced natural ring. So he definitly would not get the full amount he states is owed. I am sure some know here what laws he broke but i am more convinced that I willnot get that info here from any of you which I feel is just as unscrupulous as he is.

[denverappraiser]

ddlingo, on Friday, Jun 9 2006, 08:52 AM, said:

<snip>  which I feel is just as unscrupulous as he is. <snip>

Really?

I've answered every question you’ve asked, I told you specifically some laws that may have been violated and by whom, I gave you specific strategies on how pursue it and I told you specifically what you were doing that I think makes your position weaker and why. All for free! As best I can tell, the only problem is that no one here seems to agree with your approach. We must have different definitions of what constitutes ‘unscrupulous’.

Neil

[ben]

Quote

i am more convinced that I willnot get that info here from any of you which I feel is just as unscrupulous as he is.

Pretty strong words, ddlingo. You've gotten some very solid, free advice here. On what basis are you calling me or anyone else here "unscrupulous"?

Just to clear any conflict of interest, I am not at all involved in the jewelry industry. I'm just a physicist with an interest in the diamond market. The others here, many who are in the industry, have been around this forum forever and have served many consumers like you well, at absolutely no charge and without any type of expectations.

And, just rereading Neil's reply to you, it is exactly what you asked for, a rundown of all the laws that may have been broken by the jeweler and appraiser.

I hope you realize that this unexpected and uncalled-for accusation lowers your credibility even more than before.

[ddlingo]

Quote

And, just rereading Neil's reply to you, it is exactly what you asked for, a rundown of all the laws that may have been broken by the jeweler and appraiser.

I hope you realize that this unexpected and uncalled-for accusation lowers your credibility even more than before.

That comment is Pretty much what I expected.{ben}

So obviously based on your statement, you had low credibility issues from the jump.So your expectations were low. That being said i don't value your opinion at all.So you can keep it.
On another not I aplogize whole heartedly to denverappraiser. I actually did not see your entire post for some reason, all I saw was

Quote

That’s because we don’t have enough information. If you really want to follow the legal tactic, talk to your attorney. Bring your checkbook.

And thats why I quoted that part and responded the way I did. I hope u accept my apology, but if you don't I understand and its fine. This issue is over. I will decide how I will handle this. There is no need to post anymore.
Thanks

[denverappraiser]

ddlingo, on Thursday, Jun 8 2006, 11:54 AM, said:

I'm sure in the end I will take your advice.

Ddlingo.

Ben has said nothing that I don’t agree with. More importantly, you asked for his advice, you got it, and have been terribly ungracious in your reply. Even if you don’t want to take his advice (which you said you agree with by the way), Ben has done nothing other than to take his time and experience to respond to your request without even the possibility of personal benefit. It’s completely uncalled for that you to behaved so rudely, first in your response to me and far more so in your response to him.

Ben,

Thank you for your moral rectitude and your consistently excellent advice. You are a great benefit to this forum. I, for one, value your opinion highly and am proud to be associated with you, however remotely.

Neil

[ddlingo]

Quote

That being said i don't value your opinion at all

Thats what I said. The point of me returning the ring was was advice that I was mentioning or referring to. Don't pretend as if you didn't know that. I'm sure you were not confused with that. You can ride Ben's jock all you want.

Quote

Ben,

Thank you for your moral rectitude and your consistently excellent advice. You are a great benefit to this forum. I, for one, value your opinion highly and am proud to be associated with you, however remotely.

I felt disrespected by his comments and what I presummed was yours at the time. I apologized for what I said to you but thats where it stops. There was no mistake he challeged my credability and character for what I deemed a mistake. I stil do not value the opinion. I felt slighted in that the sympathy was for the crooked jeweler and not to the nearlt defrauded consumer.This obviousl being a jewelers forum I should have expected as much. I never stated that I would keep the ring, I merly asked how I should handle the situation and what recourses I have. I did get some valuable info and I generalized my comments(my bad). Thats where the issues arose. I have apologized and admited my wrongs. But I will not be denegrated in character and credabilty by BEN or anyone else. deverappraiser could have taken the high rode after I stated the thread was dead, but he chose to still take shots so screw him too if he wants to continue in that way. I'm not going to engage in flames or what not as I have said before the thread is dead. You can carry on your lives with the assumption that one of your fellow brethren was vindicated and got his money and or his ring with no recourse and its a perfect world for him as some of u may wish. I'm sure Ben along with the cheating jeweler appreciates the comments. If I could have deleted this thread I would have.

[Feydakin]

You know, you still haven't told us who the jeweler is..