20 replies to this topic

[omray]

I've been sending this email to companies such as bluenile.com, diamonds.com, etc. I've also searched through their sites. But, I can't seem to find the diamond I want, nor does anyone at these places reply w/such a diamond (they'll reply w/a diamond w/o the fl, or lacking in an area such as polish or symmetry. It'd be really helpful to get advice on what to do to get what I want at a best price. Please email me at sam.schaperow@gmail.com if you are able to help. Here's what I wrote:

diamond questions

I'd like to buy a diamond that has the following specs, and nothing
less, and preferably nothing more:

I'll likely be purchasing w/in several weeks, so please provide the
info you can. I'd certainly wish to see the Certs for the diamonds!
Your web site is good, but didn't quite work well enough for me to be
able to efficiently search for a diamond of all the specs I seek.
Please include those diamonds in your reply so that I can figure out
which one to get. I'll also be comparing prices from various
etailers.

OK, the specs are:

-round, w/hearts and arrows (I don't actually care about how it looks
in magnification, but as this is a good indicator of how good it'll
look to the naked eye...).
-facets: ~58 (I want the norm., not those that have so many facets
that it loses the traditional look)
-Girdle thin to med or .7-2.9%. The important point here is that it
must be thin enough so that the diamond has maximized its look to she
who'll own it, but not so thin that it cracks some day.
-No fracture filling, but I like laser-drilled. If i can save $ by
getting a laser drilled, that'll be great, but never a fracture
filled.
-VS1 or VS2
-.74-.94 carat
-Polish, symmetry, & cut must both be the *best*, so for example if
GIA, then "ID", or if AGS "EX". And 0 is good, but 000 is great. I
want the best possible for each of these factors. A signature/select
ideal is great, too.
-color F (I don't see the need for D or E)
-fluorescence: medium to very strong.
-culet: small or very small
-Lastly, please no surprises, such as light refracting or transparency
issues caused by clouds, feathers, unique issues, etc. that are to the
point of affecting how it looks to the naked eye.

I look forward to seeing what you have w/in my specifications. Also,
if there's something I forgot to include in the specifications that
will further improve the diamond's fire, brilliance, etc., please let
me know. Please send me the information soon.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Samuel Schaperow, M.S.

[denverappraiser]

This is a tough order. You have a couple of unusual requirements that are causing difficulties to the dealer. In particular, requiring fluorescence and requiring a culet.

Neither of the sites you mentioned is a stocking dealer and consequently it's difficult for them to look at a feature other than what their programmers decided would be of interest to their customers. Both of these items is usually listed somewhere in the record but they can't easily search by them. Keep looking for dealers and try to find one who stocks their own inventory. They are generally better about responding to unusual requests like this.

Neil

[ben]

With all due respect, your email reads like a ransom note! Jewelers deal with demanding customers all day long, and when their first impression of you is this note, I'd venture to guess that many of them just won't invest as much time on you.

Rather than blasting out an impersonal email with a laundry-list of your demands, I suggest picking up the phone and explaining what it is you seek. Expect the dealer to push back on some of your requirements, not because s/he can't deliver on them, but because you have unusual requirements that may be against your own interests. Be willing to engage in a back-and-forth conversation rather than one-way demands. You may find that your requirements change slightly as you gain the wisdom of someone with 10-20 years of experience with diamonds.

The end result is that, perhaps, you'll end up with a better diamond at a better price than you originally thought you could get. And, who knows, maybe the experience will be a positive and friendly one both for you and your jeweler!

[diamondsbylauren]

Ben hit the nail on the head.
It's like going in to buy a car, demanding that the inside of the tires have stripes on them.


You are not concerned about seeing the difference between D and F, yet you won't consider a diamond with "good" polish and symmetry????
The parameters you've drawn doom your search to failure.

[diamondsbylauren]

PS- the companies you've chosen are among the least "personal"

As Ben suggested, talk to people at the compnaies you are considering- they should assist you in choosing.

[denverappraiser]

I agree with Ben. If I were a dealer and I received an email like this, I wouldn't bother to answer with more than a form letter thanking you for your interest unless I happened to have EXACTLY the right stone staring me in the face.

I applaud Ben for answering the question you should have asked (and actually did ask in the headline) instead of the ones you asked in your emal. He's given you good advice.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with that set of requirments?

Neil

[omray]

Thanks for writing. I do have a specific diamond in mind (w/in the specs), so how can I use my preferred way of internet shopping communication (email) to let dealers know of what I seek, yet not make it sound like a "ransom note"?

Regarding color, I want colorless, and the reason I didn't include D or E, is that even a unique human eye can't tell the difference btwn. F and D. So, I'd not want to pay for more than what I need. I didn't pick G, also knowing that even if someone's eye isn't uniquely able to tell that it isn't amongst the colorless, there is the possibility that I'll end up w/a boarderline G-H, which while it is in the G range, it is almost an H. So, F it is. But, if price isn't increased much, I'd consider getting an E.

As for the culet, I mistyped. I meant very small to none. Thanks for finding that error.

My specs came from researching and cross comparing various ideal specs.

BTW, I have recieved some helpful replies from dealers. I'm feeling hopeful that I'll find what I'm looking for.

More accurate request list attached.

Attached Files

•  letter.doc   59.5K   12 downloads

[denverappraiser]

How about this:

Dear Mr. Diamond dealer (insert real name here),

I found your website through the excellent advice you've given in the forum on www.diamond.info (or wherever you found it) and I’m hoping you can help me find the perfect stone for my beloved. I’ve been shopping and researching for months and I think what I want is a standard round brilliant cut, 0.74-0.94cts, F color, VS1-VS2, ideal cut, with strong blue fluorescence. I’ve found a stone (link here) that I think meets these requirements for $xxx and am trying to find something comparable in your selection. My fluorescence requirement isn’t one of the search criteria on the site and I’m consequently finding the search to be difficult. Can you assist in pointing me to the correct stone(s)? Thank you in advance for your time and for your excellent site. I hope we can do business together. I look forward to hearing from you.

Neil

[Feydakin]

I'll jump in here as well.. You have no idea how many eMails we get a week saying "I'll likely be purchasing w/in several weeks".. The number is actually kind of staggering.. Yet, like most jewelers online, we rarely get a follow up eMail from the person we reply to.. Not even an "Oh my gawd your prices suck!"

It is sometimes easier to skip over an eMail like yours and focus on those that look like they will be easier work with..

Many of us, David comes to mind right away, work very hard to meet and exceed our clients needs.. But there are times when you look at the "list" of requirements and do a mental calculation of whether you will be able to make this person happy or not.. It has little to do with providing the diamond you want, we all have lots of sources and can find, or even have cut, nearly anything, but the most important part of the 'deal' is that you are happy with your purchase..

Unfortunatly, right or wrong, your fist message comes off sounding like anything short of that list will be unacceptable so it really is easier, and safer, for the dealer to focus on those people that we are sure we can make happy..

[ben]

I like Neil's letter. It's a good friendly introduction that provides enough detail to begin a meaningful conversation, even if by email. In the follow-up exchange, you would introduce your other requests [not "requirements" :-) ].

I have a few other thoughts on your requirements, from the document you posted:

Quote

Cut & Beauty  (brilliance, fire, sparkle, etc.) Ideal/excellent ideal/American ideal/super ideal/signature ideal/hearts and arrows/Tolkowsky ideal Cut goes by many names, and there are different ideas on what is “ideal”.  Many now think of the famed Tolkowsky Ideal cut to not be the perfect diamond, but it is still considered one of the best.  Obviously my goal is to get that which is the most beautiful, to the naked eye, diamond possible. Please, don’t send me a report on a diamond w/non-ideal dimensions, such as a crown angle, table, depth, pavilion, etc. that are going to reduce its beauty in the slightest.  I’ll be analyzing this information before deciding on a diamond.

Here, I would skip the diamond lesson. These guys know that "cut goes by many names" and that there are different definitions of ideal.

Quote

Certificates Yes, and preferably one that is well-known as good, but not an expensive 1 It must have one, but it need not be one that is going to raise my price, such as GIA.  An additional inspection for color and clarity by your people would be appreciated.

I would insist on either GIA or AGS, or to have the stone professionally appraised by an independent person after the sale. Having the jeweler evaluate color and clarity is a conflict of interest (it has nothing to do with honesty).

Quote

Cost See notes I’m definitely looking for a good price, including shipping.  I’ll be comparing credit card prices (not cash/wire discounted prices).  I will compare your offers to other offers and I will simply buy the one w/the best price (though I’ll slightly take into account additional factors such as guarantees, return policy window, etc.). 

The message you're sending here is, I don't care about you or any kind of relationship. There's nothing wrong with being price-conscious, but it is possible to get a good price and still be tactful. That's a worthwhile goal.

Quote

Setting See notes: I’ll be buying a platinum setting, that I’ll have a local jeweler take care of, but if your price on my designing a custom ring is very good, then I’ll buy that from you as well, and you can then insert the diamond into the setting.

Most jewelers will refuse to set a diamond that you bought elsewhere. There are many reasons for this, including the fact that they don't want to take on the liability of cracking your diamond during the process as this does happen from time to time.

Quote

Final info.  I may have the diamond appraised through my own independent appraiser after the purchase.  So, please, no negative surprises.  Thank you. 

I suggest you just get your diamond independently appraised, then if there's a problem, raise it then. Just be sure the jeweler has a manageable return policy. Again, it's a matter of tact.

[omray]

Reply to Neil & Ben:

Neil, thank you. That is a very good example, & is helpful.

Ben:
-OK, cutting out the diamond lesson.
-I was thinking AGS over GIA, since AGS tends to cost quite a bit less and is also very reputable.
-Regarding setting a diamond bought elsewhere, I have hard time figuring this out. I agree that many won't set a diamond from another place, however, isn't one of the advantages of buying loose diamonds online is to get a good price amongst the selection, and then to have it set? Some of these places will set, but in a limited selection of settings.

(I've attached my latest diamond request revision).

Attached Files

•  letter_revised.doc   69.5K   8 downloads

[denverappraiser]

omray, on Wednesday, Jan 25 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

AGS tends to cost quite a bit less

Are you sure about this?

[10X]

omray, on Wednesday, Jan 25 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

Some of these places will set, but in a limited selection of settings.

Many vendors have access to settings that aren't listed on their site. If you send them an image of what you are looking for they can often (not always) help you find what you want.

[Feydakin]

omray, on Wednesday, Jan 25 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

-Regarding setting a diamond bought elsewhere, I have hard time figuring this out. I agree that many won't set a diamond from another place, however, isn't one of the advantages of buying loose diamonds online is to get a good price amongst the selection, and then to have it set? Some of these places will set, but in a limited selection of settings.

This is one of the little discussed negatives to buying online.. Yes, thre are quite a few people who will set any diamond, but they will accept no responsibilty should something happen during the process.. There are even fewer that will set accept responsibility for your diamond..

If you have a regular jeweler that expect to set the stone, many will be upset that you didn't buy from them, or didn't even ask them if they could get what you are looking for.. It's an issue that should be dealt with more and better than it currently is in a lot of places..

[diamondsbylauren]

Personally, I have to agree with Feydakin,
I would not respond to the type of requests omray is making.
When I buy, I never try to buy the "cheapest" diamond. Nor do I want to overpay- BUT- I've learned overpaying slightly for an incredible gem, is a far "better mistake" than buying a piece of garbage at a very attractive price.

SO, if a buyer has put price into such a position of prominence, they are almost asking NOT to buy the best diamond.


I feel a phone conversation is the best way to proceed in these matters......
Email is good to start out, but not for real conversation, or negotiating.


Trying to get a secondary person to do the setting simply to save money also seems shortsighted......

[barry]

Have you tried the diamond database on this forum?

[omray]

I. No, not sure that GIA adds more to the price. It is just what I read at one of the diamond sites.

II. I've begun asking etailers if they can get me the particular setting I'm seeking. I'm trying to do it all w/the same jeweler, since I'm understanding that getting the diamond from one, and the setting from another isn't the best way to go.

III. If I can't find what I'm looking for, I might be willing to buy, assuming it is still available, a diamond that I've been looking at (see attached cert.).

IV. Another thing is that while many of the dealers have a slight price difference, I've seen a large price difference (hundreds of $s) amongst some dealers.
0.74EVS2GIA62.356.0strongexcexcnone5.77x5.79x3.60 $2925 .74EVS2GIA62.356.0strongexcexcmed-sthknone5.77x5.79x3.60 $2900 0.74EVS2GIA62.356.0strongexcexcnone5.775.793.6 $2727 0.74EVS262.356.0strongexcexcnone5.77x5.79x3.60 $2851

Doing a search on this site, I found 4 dealers for the same diamond, and the lowest priced company charges about $200 less, does have free shipping and 30 day money back, etc.

But, maybe dealers do price match. And as was said in II, I'm looking for the dealer to set it, anyway, so that may influence my decision.

Anyway, I'm glad that some dealers did help me (did get emails after some time), even though they got my very original request.

Attached Images

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[omray]

Hello:

I'm looking at buying a diamond and I want to make sure that I run it by you guys before I commit to it. The wire transfer price is $2600. The stats, per EGL (2509474334), are:

D, .79, round, depth 61.6, table width 56, crown height 15%, 43%, girdle med facited, finish ex, polish ex, culet none, flr moderate blue, clarity VS2, graining nil, comments "excellent ideal cut".

Are there any problems w/this diamond? Is the price too good to be true? Is there any other info. I should make sure to get?

I really appreciate the feedback. Thank you.

-Sam

[brianknox]

omray, on Saturday, Feb 4 2006, 02:04 AM, said:

... comments "excellent ideal cut".

Are there any problems w/this diamond? ...

Hi Sam,

I have only seen this type of comment on foreign EGL reports.

Foreign EGL reports are less reliable than EGLUSA reports, sometimes much less.

[omray]

is it that they might lie on it?