11 replies to this topic

[vilyin]

Hi all

I just bought a diamond using over the interent from one of the vendors using the information I found on this site. It's a best site by far that I found on the internet to search for diamonds.

I do have a generic question though about the list of diamonds for sale that this site offers.

One of the things that I don't undestand is how/where does the search engine go to retrive it's results, because quite often the same stone would appear several times in the search results at different prices from different vendors. What does it mean?

It doesn't look like all the vendors are using the same central location (cutter ???) because if it was the case all the vedors would have the same set of stones under different prices.

Does it mean that the same company have multiple web sites (vendor names) and use these differen vendor names to advertise stones at different prices???

Why don't cutters (or other wholesales ) sell loose stones on this web site. To me it would only make sense for them to do just that!

Thanks,
Vitaliy

[denverappraiser]

The skills required for retailing diamonds are very different from the skills required for manufacturing, warehousing, financing and other elements of the deal. Many manufacturers and large dealers find that they can do a better job and, in the end, offer better prices to their consumers by outsourcing these things while others prefer to hire employees to do them. It’s a strategy decision. By offering a stone to many different dealers, it increases the chances that the final consumer will discover it and eventually buy it. The world is a pretty big market and it’s difficult to cover it all by yourself. Many of them can and do have direct sales channels while others prefer to remain more in the background.

Not every stone that you see listed for sale on the internet is owned or even in the possession of the dealer offering it. Actually, a huge majority of them aren’t. The dealer gets an offer from their supplier with a brief description of what is being sold and they echo the offer to you without ever looking at the stone or even really considering whether it’s a reasonable offer. It’s an automated process where they receive a list of stones for sale and offer that list to their customers without much thought. This is fairly efficient if everything works right but it puts a huge amount of faith in the quality of the original description and in the expectation that no further information will be required for you to make a decision. Both of these issues can be cause for trouble.

Not every dealer works with the same suppliers and they won’t always offer everything the supplier has because it may not fit their business model. A big supply house can make an offer to hundreds of dealers who will then re-offer some or all of their selection. Similarly, most dealers have several suppliers that they use. The end result is what you are observing where certain stones seem to be offered by almost everyone and others by only a few.

In general, the super-ideal and other premium type stones will only be offered by a single dealer while the more common stones will be available everywhere. This is because the dealer will buy the stone and carry it in inventory when something juicy comes down the pike. It gives them a competitive advantage because they have the exclusive, they get better prices and they can be offering things that best fit their market style. As a consumer, it gives you the ability to buy from someone who actually has the stone in their possession and the manufacturer is happy because they get their money quickly. Not all superficially similar stones are the same and for people who are sensitive to this difference (and you should be), this is very helpful.

[vilyin]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your reply.

Still, why don't suppliers post their stones right here on this site?

What do you think would be the best way for me to find a list of all the suppliers, manufacturers, diamond cutters and bench jewelers and designers?

Also, how do stones get posted to this web site? Do dealers post them here? Or does the web site plug in somehow (through batch or real-time polling APIs) to the known dealers databases?

To address your point about "me being happy to buy a stone from someone who actually has the stone in his/her possession" - I can tell you that I really don't care.

Yes, I trully don't care wether the person I am buying a stone from owns a stone, has it in his possesion through financing or simply "knows about its existence". I do need to see a stone before I buy it though. Also as long as I get a real stone with a GIA cert, for an excellent price, and the stone verifies to match the cert provided I am happy. But that's me.

Thanks,
Vitaliy

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Vataliy,
The internet has made possible so many new ways of communicating.
The lists which many internet sellers share are a great example of this.
Of course there are other aspects of the diamond business which make this less useful in some circumstances.


You have purchased a 3 carat radiant- according to the other post. You sound satisfied- and that's the most important thing.

IN general: Stones like this are far more difficult to trade "sight unseen".
Although you might not care about purchasing such a stone from someone who's never seen it, there are drawbacks to this.
For one thing, sending $30,000+ stones around is not inexpensive.

I know that when I'm talking to one of the cutters we deal with from overseas- and he tells me he's just finished a 3 carat radiant- the description he gives me will allow me to have him put my name on it.

Another thing to consider is that many of the finest stones never get to the lists.

[denverappraiser]

Vitaliy,
You ask wonderfully probing questions. Both of you threads have become both interesting and informative. Thanks.

Still, why don't suppliers post their stones right here on this site?
Some of them do. The databases here and elsewhere are paid advertisements. Not everyone chooses to advertise in the same way or in the same places.

What do you think would be the best way for me to find a list of all the suppliers, manufacturers, diamond cutters and bench jewelers and designers?
There is no central database. Not everyone who owns diamonds for sale chooses to use the same channels. Google is pretty good for producing lists of names of people who put their information on web pages. It’s pretty handy for making big lists like you’re asking for. In the end, good shopping skills still involve quite a bit more than computer searching. Hit the street and visit some jewelers, ring them up on the phone and make an appointment with the appointment only folks. Talk to your friends and coworkers about where they found pieces that you like.

Also, how do stones get posted to this web site? Do dealers post them here? Or does the web site plug in somehow (through batch or real-time polling APIs) to the known dealers databases?
Again, this is a paid advertisement. The advertisers upload their own data.

To address your point about "me being happy to buy a stone from someone who actually has the stone in his/her possession" - I can tell you that I really don't care.

Yes, I trully don't care wether the person I am buying a stone from owns a stone, has it in his possesion through financing or simply "knows about its existence". I do need to see a stone before I buy it though. Also as long as I get a real stone with a GIA cert, for an excellent price, and the stone verifies to match the cert provided I am happy. But that's me.

I understand. The problem with buying from virtual inventory is that it’s difficult to ask questions and get additional information. For some people this isn't necessary. If you require more info than is present in the original description, the only way to get it is to order in the stone. If you have the tools and the skills you can then grade it yourself or, if you’re like most people, you will need to hire someone else to assist. In both cases this adds time and expense to each stone considered. I’m the last guy to protest this process since I get to charge for every stone I see but it’s helpful for clients to know what they’re getting into. With most of my clients, matching the stone to the GIA report is not the end of the conversation, it’s the beginning, and the chances that a particular stone will be deemed unacceptable go up considerably when the selling dealer has never seen the stone.

[hermann]

Hi Vitaliy,

Thanks for your compliments!

Just a clarification on how things work around here: Various dealers post their inventories here and they pay a monthly fee for the right to do so. We do have a proprietary API that is only available to dealers after they have proven to us that they are truly members of the jewelry industry. They prove this to us by sending in copies of their education credentials, invoices to show that they have purchased goods from major recognized manufacturers, etc.

While Neil calls the uploading of inventories "advertisements" I don't think that's an accurate word for what we do, as the dealers don't get to choose how the inventory is presented or when -- that is totally in the hands of the consumer -- and there is no promotional text or graphics allowed in that area other than the vendor's logo. Furthermore, you may notice that there are no banners ads or text ads anywhere on this site (of course I may change this in the future, but it's not currently planned anytime soon).

Congrats on your purchase, and thanks again for using DIAMOND.INFO! Be sure to tell all your friends :-)

Hermann

[denverappraiser]

Hermann,

I don't mean to call them advertisements to be in any way disparaging. You offer a valuable service to both consumers and dealers and you are absolutely entitled to be paid for it. The site is giving data about specific stones for sale to customers in exchange for a fee paid by the seller. The seller chooses which stones to include. Those who don't pay don't get their inventory displayed. There's nothing wrong with this, but it's definitely advertising.

Neil

[hermann]

Neil, I didn't take your comments as disparaging at all. :-)

Quote

The site is giving data about specific stones for sale to customers in exchange for a fee paid by the seller. The seller chooses which stones to include. Those who don't pay don't get their inventory displayed.

Actually, some dealers don't pay and still get their inventory displayed. There is an exception to our pricing structure that allows those with small personal inventories to display them at no charge. A small handful of dealers post their inventories this way (I wish more took me up on this offer!)

Quote

There's nothing wrong with this, but it's definitely advertising.

I agree there's nothing wrong with advertising, if done in a tasteful and unobtrusive way. But I think we'll have to "agree to disagree" on the nomenclature and precise definition of the word "advertising"! :-)

A parting thought... if you look at this forum page, you will notice no advertising at all. I believe Diamond Review is the only diamond forum on the internet that can make that claim. I like having all the individuals on this forum, yourself included, be able to express themselves without having paid advertisements (perhaps from your competitors) running right next to your contributions.

Thanks again for the compliments, and most of all, for your continued very positive contributions to the Forum this year. You and a handful of others make a huge difference here, and it is time I formally thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.

Enjoy the rest of the holidays, and have a happy 2006!

Hermann

[denverappraiser]

Hermann,

Thanks for the kind words.

I have indeed noticed the lack of banner advertising. I also appreciate your avoiding the tendency to glue you favorite discussion topics to the top of the list so that they never go away whether people are interested in them or not.

[barry]

Nothing wrong with "glueing" Neil, IMO, especially when the topics are educational, informative, and designed to help consumers with accurate information sans shilling that they come to a diamond forum in the first place.

Eliminates repetitive questions on the same topic and I think that if Hermann did this it would be a positive rather than a negative for consumers.

[denverappraiser]

That is, of course, a design decision for Hermann and the various forums approach it in very different ways. Personally I find it annoying in the general forums and much prefer to have such material included in the FAQ and tutorials. I agree that repetitive questions can be distracting and it's helpful to have well considered responses to them made conveniently available for readers.

[barry]

No prob.