6 replies to this topic

[Johnny_Turbo]

Hello there,

Well the diamond I have purchased is Gemscan certified. I live in Toronto, Canada and Gemscan seems to be the most popular form of dimaond certification everywhere you go. Does anyone know anything about Gemscan and it's reputation, accuracy or comparison between other's such as GIA, EGL, etc?

[sparkllvr]

Gemscan should be okay, but it doesn't have the reputation of grading accuracy that GIA or AGS have. The problem though isn't so much with the lab itself, it's with any jeweler who tries to tell you that a Gemscan report is the same as GIA.

An honest jeweler will tell you the truth, that the labs are not equal, and will make sure that the diamond carries less of a price tag than its GIA equivalent simply because you are taking a chance buying from a more lenient lab. More lenient means that your diamond might be graded and "H" color with Gemscan and an "I" color with GIA.

Hope that helps.

Sparklllvr

[denverappraiser]

sparkllvr, on Feb 12 2005, 11:41 PM, said:

Gemscan should be okay, but it doesn't have the reputation of grading accuracy that GIA or AGS have. The problem though isn't so much with the lab itself, it's with any jeweler who tries to tell you that a Gemscan report is the same as GIA.

An honest jeweler will tell you the truth, that the labs are not equal, and will make sure that the diamond carries less of a price tag than its GIA equivalent simply because you are taking a chance buying from a more lenient lab. More lenient means that your diamond might be graded and "H" color with Gemscan and an "I" color with GIA.

Hope that helps.

Sparklllvr

True enough, but this doesn't make them wrong. Sometimes you can get the same stone with a second tier report and see a better price because of it. If you buy the diamond instead of the paper, you may find a bargain with a Gemscan stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

[barry]

" True enough, but this doesn't make them wrong."

Who? Gemscan or the jeweler? Or both?

I disagree.

If the Gemscan Cert is not as strict as the GIA or AGS, customer winds up paying more for less. If the jeweler touts the Gemscan as being on par with GIA/AGS, ditto.

The majority of consumers have not seen enough diamonds of various Cut qualities to be able to discern color/clarity variability between Labs. As such they are buying the "paper" and the integrity of the jeweler behind the counter.

[denverappraiser]

barry, on Feb 13 2005, 09:02 AM, said:

" True enough, but this doesn't make them wrong."

Who? Gemscan or the jeweler? Or both?

Gemscan.

Second tier labs don't always get it wrong but their stones are usually less expensive. A correctly graded stone from Gemscan will usually be less expensive than that same stone would be if accompanied by GIA or AGS paper. In the case of Canadian customers, there is a substantial premium associated with GIA & AGS examinations because neither company does business in Canada. The dealers can buy from manufacturers who have had stones previously graded by one of those two labs but it is decidedly inconvenient for a Canadian dealer to submit stones to either one. EGL-USA, GemScan and HRD are all quite popular because of this issue.

I agree that the integrity of the jeweler is a critical element.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

[barry]

Neil;

The issue here is proper disclosure to the consumer.

"Second tier labs don't always get it wrong" but they don't always get it right and how far from "right" they are in relation to the standard bearers in our industry; GIA/AGS is of critical importance to the buyer's wallet. How does the consumer know if the particular Gemscan stone he is considering has been "correctly graded" and would receive a comparable grade from either GIA or AGS. The answer is: he doesn't.
Of course, if a consumer can find an alternative lab's Cert to be on par with GIA/AGS, then money can be saved. This is where the reputation and integrity of the jeweler becomes important in disclosing qualitative differences between lab reports. I understand that jeweler's on Bloor Street in Toronto, for example, carry GIA and AGS certed diamonds in addition to Gemscan, EGL-NY, and HRD.

As far as premiums go, GIA and AGS paper here in the USA also carry a premium vis-a-vis other labs and consumers clearly understand the reason for the premium has much to do with these labs' accuracy, stringency, and consistency in grading.

[denverappraiser]

barry, on Feb 13 2005, 10:52 AM, said:

Neil;

The issue here is proper disclosure to the consumer.

"Second tier labs don't always get it wrong" but they don't always get it right and how far from "right" they are in relation to the standard bearers in our industry; GIA/AGS is of critical importance to the buyer's wallet. How does the consumer know if the particular Gemscan stone he is considering has been "correctly graded" and would receive a comparable grade from either GIA or AGS. The answer is: he doesn't.
Of course, if a consumer can find an alternative lab's Cert to be on par with GIA/AGS, then money can be saved. This is where the reputation and integrity of the jeweler becomes important in disclosing qualitative differences between lab reports. I understand that jeweler's on Bloor Street in Toronto, for example, carry GIA and AGS certed diamonds in addition to Gemscan, EGL-NY, and HRD.

As far as premiums go, GIA and AGS paper here in the USA also carry a premium vis-a-vis other labs and consumers clearly understand the reason for the premium has much to do with these labs' accuracy, stringency, and consistency in grading.

barry,

As usual, I think we agree. The integrity of the dealer is of paramount concern. After all, the top tier labs don't always get it right either. Customers are relying on the jeweler to give them accurate and complete advice about buying a stone that's going to be the right one for them. This is equally true for internet dealers, storefront dealers and even independent appraisers. The lab reports supply useful information for everyone involved but relying entirely on the contents of a report can lead to some serious misunderstandings.

Most Gemscan reports that I've seen have been 'appraisals' based on either HRD or AGS lab reports although they do have their own grading report as well. I'm based in the US although I do a fair amount of work for Canadian clients as well as for US clients buying stones that originate in Canada. The market here won't generally accept GemScan grading on important stones so the stones that are bound for export tend to be graded by other labs. Consequently, I don't think the reports that cross my desk are an especially representative sample of their work. Comments from my Canadian friends suggest that the GemScan documents are usually presented at retail as a self-contained report with no additional surpporting materials from other labs.

How does a customer know if the stone is properly graded? Assuming that they don't want to go through the effort and expense of turning themselves into experts, they should find someone who has. This is also the way they get any additional information that they may find important in their decision making process beyond what is contained on the lab report. This might be the dealer they are buying from, it might be an independent appraiser in their community, it might be an appraiser out in the middle of fly-over country (like, say, Denver ). They should pick an advisor that they trust and then listen to the advice that they're given.

There is a famous jeweler in Nebraska that says "If you don't know jewelry, know your jeweler." It's pretty good advice, even in Canada.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA