9 replies to this topic

[EricHughes]

What a wonderful site! I discovered diamond.info a few months back when my girlfriend and I started shopping. It was only TODAY that I discovered the forums; what a great resource!

I've spent the last six months reading, visiting numerous jewelers, etc... and I'm nearing the point of purchase. Since I discovered you guys today, I thought I would post and see what you think about this particular diamond that I am considering:

Oval
8.17 x 6.00 x 3.80
1.24 carat
depth - 63.3 %
table - 60 %
girdle - slightly thick to thick, faceted
culet - none
polish - vg
symmetry - g
clarity - SI2
color - E
flor - none
GIA cert.
Comments: "Additional pinpoints, internal graining and surface graining are not shown."

$5080.

I have a copy of the GIA cert and the table itself looks to be clean. There is one large feather off to the side but I was told it would be easily covered when set. I have seen this diamond in person and it is beautiful... but I know I probably could be easily fooled.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

[ben]

It sounds like a nice stone, but I would compare it with a stone of lesser carat weight and with an average girdle as I suspect much weight is being "hidden" there (though the price appears to reflect this)

Can you post the cert?

[barry]

My first question is: How many Ovals have you seen as a basis for comparison?

A 1.24 carat is a very desireable size commanding a price premium and the thick girdle suggests that the cutter would not have achieved the size had he thinned the girdle to sl. thin to Med.

In addition I suspect that both the upper and lower girdle half facets have been "painted" onto the main Crown and Pavillion facets in an effort to further conserve weight. The consequence of such facet "painting" instead of correct cutting of these facets into the girdle is light leakage and absence of contrast; something you would not necessarily notice if you viewed the diamond under the jeweler's halogen lamps at the counter. I don't mean to rain on your parade and indeed this may very well be a very nice diamond, but please keep in mind that fancy shapes are very difficult to assess soley on the "numbers" and I'm going by my experience and the limited "numbers" you have made available.

[Princess Tess]

Barry:

I've never heard of "facet painting." Is it like "face painting?"
Are the extra facets actually "painted" or drawn on? Please elucidate.

Princess Tess

[barry]

"Painting" is a Diamond Cutter's term ( In Yiddish, "Vish") used to describe the adding on of the upper and lower half or "girdle" facets to the main Crown and Pavillion facets at a facet angle that is designed to save carat weight. They are literally pasted on straight onto the main facet without regard to proper cut angle or definition ( obtained when the facet is started from the rib or junction line of the main facet and correctly angled down into the girdle) which is important for proper contrast and scintillation.

[EricHughes]

ben, on Feb 7 2005, 09:27 PM, said:

It sounds like a nice stone, but I would compare it with a stone of lesser carat weight and with an average girdle as I suspect much weight is being "hidden" there (though the price appears to reflect this)

Can you post the cert?

I don't have any way of scanning the cert into the computer.

I will definitely compare it with stones of similar dimensions. Thanks for the reply!

[EricHughes]

barry, on Feb 7 2005, 10:58 PM, said:

My first question is: How many Ovals have you seen as a basis for comparison?

A 1.24 carat is a very desireable size commanding a price premium and the thick girdle suggests that the cutter would not have achieved the size had he thinned the girdle to sl. thin to Med.

In addition I suspect that both the upper and lower girdle half facets have been "painted" onto the main Crown and Pavillion facets in an effort to further conserve weight. The consequence of such facet "painting" instead of correct cutting of these facets into the girdle is light leakage and absence of contrast; something you would not necessarily notice if you viewed the diamond under the jeweler's halogen lamps at the counter. I don't mean to rain on your parade and indeed this may very well be a very nice diamond, but please keep in mind that fancy shapes are very difficult to assess soley on the "numbers" and I'm going by my experience and the limited "numbers" you have made available.

I have seen a few... I find that most retailers usually don't have a good selection of ovals... especially in the carat weight I'm shopping for. So unfortunately, my experience is very limited.

I realize the numbers off the cert. are not the whole story, but they're all I have. I called the jeweler and they said that they do not generally do serin reports on fancy shapes. I would have the diamond appraised by someone independent, if I choose to buy it.

About "painting." Perhaps you can post or link to some pictures that show what exactly this looks like?

If I find that this diamond has been "painted," would you suggest not buying it given the price?

Thanks.

[Princess Tess]

Does "painting" make a diamond look better? Couldn't this "painting" come off at some time down the road?

I think I want my diamonds without "extras" thank you.

Paint me picky.

Princess Tess

[barry]

I'll know better the next time not to use trade terminology

Just for me to K-I-S.

[Princess Tess]

Okay, from the GIA website:

"In a standard round brilliant diamond, these facets are evenly spaced around the diamond. Yet upper and lower girdle facets can also be polished so that they lean toward the bezel or pavilion main facets and away from each other (facets created in this manner are referred to by diamond cutters as “painted” facets). This change in orientation reduces the angle to the horizontal of the upper and lower girdle facets, and yields a shallower angle between the half facets and the adjacent bezels and pavilion mains. Alternatively, the half facets can be fashioned so that they lean toward each other, thereby creating steeper angles between each upper or lower girdle facet and its neighboring bezel or pavilion main facet, and steeper angles of the halves themselves with respect to the horizontal (in which case they are referred to as “dug out” facets). These techniques are well known in the diamond cutting industry, but seldom discussed outside of that group."

Did I do good?

Princess Tess