20 replies to this topic

[kaseri]

Hello,

I'm new to all this diamond lingo & I need some help here! What are your thoughts on this engagement ring? This is as much info as I have regarding the stones & setting.

Main Stone -
GIA cert
Round cut
1.0 carat
F
VS2
No Fluorescence

Side stones -
F color
carat weight - .52 combined

Setting -
3 stone Platinum band

The price I was quoted for the complete ring is $7500

Does this seem like a good price? Please help!!!

[barry]

Do you have a copy of the GIA Cert? Can you provide us with more information on the 1.01 as well as the side stones?

[kaseri]

Barry,

I wish I did have more info on the stones. The jeweler is a close friend of the family & as much as I trust him I want other peoples opinions for my own peace of mind.

Would you be able to provide any thoughts at all?

[barry]

My thoughts are that there is nowhere near sufficient information to even give you even an educated guesstimate.

I've enclosed a graphic which depicts three possibilities that these diamonds may be.
The shallow diamond on the left will appear glassy and lifleless; the "deep" stone on the right, will appear black and smaller proportioned for it's carat weight.

Although you don't necessarily have to go for an "ideal" proportioned stone, you should endeavor to get a diamond that is nicely cut. It's your guarantee that the stone will
sparkle and disperse and l@@k it's size. At a minimum your friend would have to provide a Cut and Proportion Analysis from either Megascope or Sarin machine .

Without this minimum amount of information you may be paying MORE for LESS .

Treat this diamond purchase as you would any other big-ticket item such as a car or house; get as much product information as possible. You would not buy a house without a full and complete engineer's report and you wouldn't buy a car the way my grandfather used to to do it, by kicking the front tires and slamming the doors.
Consumer's Reports, Car & Driver, and CarFax would probably be your first stops for information.

Diamonds have come of age and there are technologies available to you to assist in making an informed buying decision. Protect yourself by using them.

As far as Platinum is concerned, there is Platinum and there is Platinum. Is it of heavy weight? Is it stamped ? 900? 850? 950? What is the craftsmanship of the ring?
Are the head and shank in balance with each other? Look at the prongs; are they worn or do they appear to be in good condition? I know you probably would need a good bench jeweler to answer some of these questions, but that is my point. You need information.

If the ring needs to be serviced, will your friend provide it? Does he back it with a Lifetime Guarantee?

To paraphrase the great Ronald Reagan; Trust is good, but Verification is better.

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[kaseri]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to get a copy of the GIA cert today & I'll post the info for your review.

[barry]

Ask your jeweler to provide you with a Megascope or sarin analysis as well.

[kaseri]

Ok.. I have some better info on this stone. Lets focus on the main stone for now. Here are the specs.

GIA cert
1 carat
round cut
F
VS1
Depth 59.3
Table 53.4
Fluorescence – none
Girdle – thin to thick
Culet - none
Polish - good
Symmetry - good

Based on these stats what is a reasonable price to pay for this diamond @ a "brick & mortar" store.

[barry]

A good place to start is the diamond database on this website which lists diamonds from several brick and mortar jewelers. Your specs (or very similar) will come up with pricing.

[ben]

barry, on Feb 2 2005, 05:43 AM, said:

To paraphrase the great Ronald Reagan; Trust is good, but Verification is better.

I think the exact quote is, (with Ronald Regan voice ), "Trust, but Verify!"

[barry]

Correct, Ben; that is the exact quote. I paraphrased.

No doubt, Ben Franklin is the King of quotable quotes and I like the one you're using. How true.
(Uncle Benny, take heed ).

Here is another one that I like (correct me if I don't have it exactly right).

"All Cats look grey in the dark."

[ben]

Quote

"All Cats look grey in the dark."

[jan]

barry, on Feb 2 2005, 11:16 PM, said:

A good place to start is the diamond database on this website which lists diamonds from several brick and mortar jewelers. Your specs (or very similar) will come up with pricing.

Where is the data base for bricks and mortar jewelers. I must have missed this. Do you have a link?

[barry]

I clicked on the on-line button and noted listings for jewelers that are both B&M as well as Internet. Didn't see any listings on the "local jeweler" button.

[jan]

I only saw 3 online dealers come up. Didn't see any local or bricks and mortar jewelers come up at all.

[barry]

I believe Abazias and Union Diamond have physical diamond store locations and see customers.

[jan]

I don't know... I know they list virtual inventories.... hopefully people don't think they have those goods in stock.

[Rhino]

Hi Kaseri,

What others have told you here is true. It's really impossible to even give an inkling of how brilliant or not that stone will be and you CERTAINLY do not want to shell out the bucks for an F VS1 when you could be passing up another stone, with even a lower clarity/color that is more brilliant than what you're looking at.

To get the most out of your time on diamond forums such as this you'd need to provide this basic of info...


a. Carat Weight
b. Clarity
c. Color
d. Diameter measurements
e. Total depth measurement
f. Total depth %
g. Table %
h. Girdle thickness (min-max)
i. Culet size
j. Polish grade
k. Symmetry grade

This information can be garnered off a GIA Report (which you have provided) however ... those of us already in the industry who are particular about what is purchased and what is rejected require more information than what is currently listed on a GIA Report. Other tools help us with this information. Among the very basic of these (which Barry has already mentioned) is a Sarin or OGI analysis which lists proportion information of at least 17 of the major facets on the diamond. While this may not seem to be *as much* info as garnered from the GIA Report, it is crucial nonetheless.

l. Crown angles
m. Pavilion angles
n. the minimums and maximums for each of the measurements.

Knowing the minimums and maximums can give us an idea of how tightly or how loosely the stone has been cut. Diamonds with excellent precision will generally have tolerances less than 1%/degree. Also knowing the crown/pavilion angles will give a seasoned expert some idea how the light performance may fair with this stone. There are more tools/technologies that are used in assessing cut/brilliance information but what I have listed is the very bare minimums the experts seek to have when giving any kind of educated counsel.

Hope that helps.

Peace,
Rhino

[Rhino]

For your edification and reference Kaseri here is a screen shot of a Sarin Report (actually one of many various reports generated by Sarin).

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[Rhino]

And here is an example of an OGI Report. Both devices measure the factets of the diamond in question and report the results to the user. Some may argue for the accuracy of one device over the other, however both perform the same basic functions. If the jeweler you're dealing with doesn't have either of these devices you should be able to find a local independant appraiser who may.

Kind regards,
Rhino

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[Rhino]

HI JAN!!! Hope this post finds you well.