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0.90Ct Round Diamond Considersations (Eye-Clean) For A Newbie


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#1 akalic

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:12 AM

Hi there,

Diamond newbie planning to buy online, and budget myself so that I can prepare for myself for what to look for IN PERSON when I go study at shops in the big city. Looking to spend ~4500USD max for a GIA-certified diamond (no band).

Cut: Excellent/Ideal (6.25mm face up size, probably 1:1 L:W ratio? -> this is what I read of, have not seen what this looks like with some variance). Cut quality is absolutely the most important thing to me.

Color: H-I (no yellow/brown tinge at all for me. This can only be for sure if seen in person?)

Clarity: SI1 (hopefully won't matter at carat size and focusing on eye clean)

I understand that crown and pavillion angles are opposing, but how do we select for table and depth? I had T: 57-60, and D: 59.5-61.5, C:33-35.5, P:40.3-41.2. So far I am only using Holloway Cut Adviser for light return, fire, scintillation, spread. Can't I just prefer them all if it is <2? clear.png. I don't know which of these 4 things is important to her.

Other considerations:
1) I hate the idea of having a milky diamond so preferably medium fluorescence at the most? Most have been "none"
2) Placement of inclusions (right at the top of the face is bad?) , what should I look at for 10x magnification photos/360s, or even at just eye-clean viewing?
3) 0.90ct is the lowest I will be going. It can be higher up to 0.99ct if what I compromise does not affect my main focus of choosing a beautiful, shiny , eye clean diamond for her.
4) Girdle: medium to slightly thick : this is what I usually match with....is this an issue? I know not to have it very thick.
5) GIA characteristics report on Clarity: Twinning wisp on the one below. Is this good bad? What if they have 4 characteristics instead of one? I don't understand what any of these words do to the diamond (eye clean , 10x mag)

FYI: Her ring size is 5.25, no strong preference on band yet (aria?).

Here is an example of something that I thought was reasonable:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2771876

Thank you for reading



#2 davidelevi

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

Hi there,

Diamond newbie planning to buy online, and budget myself so that I can prepare for myself for what to look for IN PERSON when I go study at shops in the big city. Looking to spend ~4500USD max for a GIA-certified diamond (no band).

Cut: Excellent/Ideal (6.25mm face up size, probably 1:1 L:W ratio? -> this is what I read of, have not seen what this looks like with some variance). Cut quality is absolutely the most important thing to me.

If it's round, by definition it's going to be 1:1 L:W ratio. Anything significantly different than 1 is either poorly cut, or an oval (or both!!!)

If cut quality is the foremost thing (and IMHO it should be), then consider some of the specialists, rather than the "run of the mill" like Blue Nile or James Allen. Not that you can't find well cut stones there, but 1) they'll be not-quite-as-perfect-as, 99% of the time, 2) it may take a few rounds and more information than the "big guys" are willing or able to provide.
 

Color: H-I (no yellow/brown tinge at all for me. This can only be for sure if seen in person?)

Colour perception is really a personal thing. A well cut H-I (even J in the size you are looking at) will face up white; whether you see the body colour is very much down to the circumstances, and whether you mind is a different question altogether. Your plan of going to "see what you can see" is eminently sensible. Just leave the credit cards at home.
 

Clarity: SI1 (hopefully won't matter at carat size and focusing on eye clean)

Very likely, but don't take it for granted, and the only way of knowing for sure is again to look at it. Even good quality photos will only tell part of the story (though generally if it's not apparent on a good quality 20x photo, it will be totally invisible with the naked eye, the stone set and on a moving hand - no matter how much she tries to keep it still, it's not a match for a 1/500 second shutter).
 

I understand that crown and pavillion angles are opposing, but how do we select for table and depth? I had T: 57-60, and D: 59.5-61.5, C:33-35.5, P:40.3-41.2.

Start from the cut grade. That largely takes care of the angles and depth. Table % is very much a personal preference - you seem to be selecting for very spready, bright but relatively non-fiery stones; I would go the opposite way (Table 53-56%, and allow some more depth).
 

So far I am only using Holloway Cut Adviser for light return, fire, scintillation, spread. Can't I just prefer them all if it is <2? I don't know which of these 4 things is important to her.

As per HCA instructions, all stones <2 are worth seeing. I would not even trust the HCA to that point, but if you do then don't complicate your life unnecessarily.
 

Other considerations:
1) I hate the idea of having a milky diamond so preferably medium fluorescence at the most? Most have been "none"
2) Placement of inclusions (right at the top of the face is bad?) , what should I look at for 10x magnification photos/360s, or even at just eye-clean viewing?
3) 0.90ct is the lowest I will be going. It can be higher up to 0.99ct if what I compromise does not affect my main focus of choosing a beautiful, shiny , eye clean diamond for her.
4) Girdle: medium to slightly thick : this is what I usually match with....is this an issue? I know not to have it very thick.
5) GIA characteristics report on Clarity: Twinning wisp on the one below. Is this good bad? What if they have 4 characteristics instead of one? I don't understand what any of these words do to the diamond (eye clean , 10x mag)

1) Largely irrelevant. Milkiness and haze due to fluorescence are very rare phenomena, and generally signalled by very strong discounting - as well as being dead easy to detect once you get the stone (do make sure that you don't get a "final sale, no returns, store credit only" type of deal - independent of the fluorescence issue).

2) Inclusion placement on reports is meaningless - it's a way to help you identify the diamond, not a guide to visibility. In photos, my rule of thumb is that if it's not visible at 5x in a photo (measure with a ruler - don't trust the indicators on the screen!), it most likely isn't visible at all without a loupe. Yes, plenty of weasel words there, not least because it really depends on what one means by "not visible": to whom, with what lighting, what observation angle, what background, what setting ("none" is a setting...).

3)Diamonds are largely sold based on weight. A 0.99 will be a bit more than 10% more than a 0.90 with the same characteristics.

4)No, it's not an issue, and it's taken care of by the cut grade (GIA or AGS).

5) Wisps are generally pretty benign - they are wispy (doh!). Crystals are probably the biggest unknown, because they can be transparent and pretty much invisible even with a loupe, or black and opaque. See comment above on eye-clean/placement
 

FYI: Her ring size is 5.25, no strong preference on band yet (aria?).

Here is an example of something that I thought was reasonable:
https://www.jamesall...cut-sku-2771876

Thank you for reading

Looks like a nice stone, though possibly not perfectly clean - but I would defer any judgement and choice until you have actually seen some diamonds "in real life". You may be surprised at the change in priorities this sometimes brings.

Edited by davidelevi, 16 May 2017 - 10:41 AM.

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#3 akalic

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:11 PM

Wow great tips there. Thank you.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2653722

Looking at this diamond. She is ok with J. I was wondering about it being eye clean. I would imagine you could see some of the inclusions if you stared real close to it?

#4 davidelevi

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:40 PM

Face up, set, without a loupe, I doubt you'd see anything there. But the only real test is to see it in real life.
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#5 akalic

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:04 PM

Hi there,

 

thoughts on this diamond? I went a different route with my local guy. G/SI2 (looks pretty clean to me)

 

A) http://www.sheetalgroup.com/Details/StoneDetailsWithoutMaster/?stoneno=FM18613

 

B http://www.shairugems.net/ViewDna.aspx?Loc=M&StoneID=1253560554&RefNo=BGS-191465&Image=True

 

they are both the same price. Which one do you think has the superior cut? I know only B has an ASET/idealscope


Edited by akalic, 23 May 2017 - 09:04 PM.


#6 davidelevi

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:02 PM

The two stones you posted links to are a G/SI1 and an I/VS1. Is the G/SI2  from your local guy a third one or a typo for G/SI1?

I agree, the G seems pretty clean - inclusions are mostly transparent/faintly coloured and off the table. It also seems to be very well cut (BTW, there is no ASET, but there is an IdealScope image: below the video there is a button called "Images". Clicking it brings up two thumbnails: a normal photo and the IS).

 

The I is also well cut, and at VS1 is definitely clean.

 

The videos show a very comparable amount of body colour - relatively little for an I, and quite a bit for a G, but they were taken by different people in different circumstances (and post-processing can do wonders as well), so I wouldn't rely on them for comparison. I just found it funny.

 

Personally - repeat personally - if they really are the same price, I'd rather go for the higher crown and the higher colour of the G, especially considering that the difference in diameter is not going to be visible without tools, even with the stones right next to each other. YMMV.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
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#7 akalic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:34 AM

Thank you. I requested for the aset. And they provided me with it for the g/si1

[url="[url]http://www.sheetalgroup.com/Details/StoneDetails/?stoneno=FM18613"]http://www.sheetalgroup.com/Details/StoneDetails/?stoneno=FM18613[/url][/url]

How does the aset look in your opinion? I'm hoping with the si1 it isn't too cloudy or anything. Does it look clear of any clarity characteristics?

Edited by akalic, 24 May 2017 - 07:27 AM.


#8 denverappraiser

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:10 AM

Thank you. I requested for the aset. And they provided me with it for the g/si1

http://www.sheetalgr...stoneno=FM18613[/url]

How does the aset look in your opinion? I'm hoping with the si1 it isn't too cloudy or anything. Does it look clear of any clarity characteristics?

ASET looks fine.  BTW, ASET isn't used for evaluating either clarity or cloudiness.  That's strictly about evaluating light return.  


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#9 akalic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:12 AM

Do you guys think I should be worried about the g/si1 cloudiness? I understand it is more than just a small area on the diamond

#10 denverappraiser

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:43 AM

I don't see evidence of a problem, and GIA didn't see evidence of a problem, but that's a question for someone who can actually see the stone, not just a photograph.

 

FWIW, 'materially affects beauty or durability of the stone' is part of the definition of I-1.  It doesn't absolutely mean I would agree with them but the grader in the lab didn't see it as 'material'. 


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#11 akalic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:21 AM

Where does it say i-1?

Sorry I don't know what you mean by that

#12 denverappraiser

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:33 AM

GIA graded it SI1.  That's two grades above the threshold where the grader thought it would affect the beauty of the stone (that threshold is I-1).  That was your question, wasn't it?  Is the cloud likely to affect beauty?


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#13 davidelevi

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:51 AM

Rewind...

Do you guys think I should be worried about the g/si1 cloudiness? I understand it is more than just a small area on the diamond

No. Why would you be worried about cloudiness in an SI1 where there is a single cloud listed as clarity characteristic, and that is (not all that easily) visible in the photo?

 

What makes you think "it (WHAT?) is more than just a small area on the diamond"?


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#14 akalic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:49 AM

Fair enough. I need some assurance in the clarity of the diamond as an SI1 (cloud/crystal/feather) that I cannot determine on my own. I guess I am nervous about it. I have to really identify what I perceive to affect the quality of the diamond more. Having a I diamond, or having an SI1. 

 

We both don't have much experience in looking at diamonds so all I am concerned of is its visible upon looking at it in person.



#15 davidelevi

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:07 PM

"Quality" is what you define it to be - neither I colour nor SI1 clarity are a flaw as such.

 

This particular SI1 is unlikely to have visible inclusions to the naked eye, but the only way of knowing is to see it - and this is the only part of your post that I really disagree with: "I cannot determine [eye-cleanness] on my own". If you cannot, no-one else can.

 

Will the vendor allow you to see the diamond. and will (s)he return all your money if you don't like it? Note that the answer has nothing to do with the diamond, but everything to do with the vendor...


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#16 denverappraiser

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:48 PM

The 100% refund for a reasonable amount of time is a deal killer for me.  There's just too many jewelers out there to need to put up with any crap on this issue.  The other thing is to ask THEM to look at it and tell you if they can see anything.  They might lie, but they're no more anxious than you to get into the whole return business and they're routinely more reliable on this question than you might think. 


Edited by denverappraiser, 24 May 2017 - 12:48 PM.

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